RM Software+Aprilaire 8870 Thermostat+ 8811 Protocol Adapter

Please Help

My Elk Rm when adjusting the Temp and other climate changes on the Climate page will not control 8870.

I AM using the Elk TSO7 and the RM software on two on site Computers.

When I change the Temp on the Elk RM Climate Page from a on site computer The TSO7 Changes to the new temp.

The 8870 never changes to the new settings. When I adjust the 8870 there is no change on the Elk RM Climate Page.

All other functions on the Elk RM Work fine The Security, Lighting, Video, And Links all work Great.

The 8811 protocol Adapter is installed and the Elk M1XSP is set for Aprilaire settings.

The Elk M1XEP is being used, I can connect to the Virtual Key Pad from the LAN and WAN.

I have no Problem Connecting the Elk RP from the LAN and WAN.

I think I have given enough info on the equipment installed and it's working status.


Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.


Thanks

William W Low ([email protected])

As far as I know, the 8870 works with the M1+ M1XSP Serial Port Expander. I have not heard of any problems.

Spanky said:

As far as I know, the 8870 works with the M1+ M1XSP Serial Port Expander. I have not heard of any problems.

Click to expand...

Any Sugestions on what I should check in programing and or network settings, If any body out there is using the Aprilaire 8870 please reply.

THANKS

[email protected]

William,

It sounds like there might be a communication problem between the thermostat and the ELK. To determine if it is or not: At an ELK keypad, press the "ELK" menu key, press the right arrow key, press the '6' key "Thermostat Temperature", press the right arrow key. Does the ELK show the 8870's current temperature or does it display "Not Enabled"? If "not enabled" then:
- Check the data bus wiring between the ELK-M1 and ELK-M1XSP. If the M1XSP is enrolled into the M1 system then it should be okay.
- Check the wiring between the 8870 and the 8811 protocol adapter.
- What version firmware is in the M1XSP?
- What is the data bus address of the M1XSP set for?
- What is the thermostat address of the 8870 set for? This is set through the 8870 programming.
- What is the baud rate of the 8870 set for? It should be 9600. This is set through the 8870 programming.

BTW, we have the 8870 interfaced with the M1 and ELK-TS07 in one of our training rooms and it has been in use for a few years now.

Regards,

This was helpful for me to read, because I was thinking about buying possibly 3 of the AprilAire thermostats for my new home.

The reason i had decided against it, was that the thermostats didn't appear to be programmable, and while I want something integrated into my autmoation system, I don't want my temperature programming to fail if my PC crashes.

So I'd started thinking about the HAI Omni's instead.

Looking at the Elk RM link you referred to, I can see you can use ElkRM to adjust the temperature....

Can you also use it to program a schedule for multiple thermostats and set an away mode? If so, does that continue to work if the PC hosting ElkRM is turned off (i.e. is the temperature program being run by the Elk, or the PC running ElkRM)?

Would love to have some more detail on this so that I can plan what if any HVAC/ELK integration to do.

Dlamb


Thanks for your reply.


I have checked the following and confirmed.

The Elk M1KP does display the 8870 thermostat temp, not mistaking as the M1KP temp Sensor.

The Elk XSP Firmware is 1.0.26 = Standard Firmware.

Im not using a data buss hub -> should I be using this device also,

The 8870 is wired directly to the Protocol Adapter via the wire leads on the adapter.

The 8870 address is 1.

The Elk xsp is set for a address of 1 and wired directly to M1 Control Data Bus Terminals

The Elk xsp is set for 232 coms is wired to the adapter by the 232 coms at input C.

The Baud Rate on the Elk xsp and the 8870 is set for 9600 baud.

Question!

Should the Elk RM settings for the assigned port be 2101 or 2601? It is currantly at Port 2601, this is the same port that the elk xep is using. This was verified by the Xep set up and the find option.

Ill check the rest and get back with you later.

[email protected] said:

Question!

Should the Elk RM settings for the assigned port be 2101 or 2601? It is currantly at Port 2601, this is the same port that the elk xep is using. This was verified by the Xep set up and the find option.

Ill check the rest and get back with you later.

Click to expand...

Hi William,

The communications between the ELK-M1XEP and ELK-RM is through port 2101. You'll need to "Enable" port 2101 for the M1XEP from the ELK-RP-> M1XEP Setup Tab (there is a check box for that). Also you will need to configure the port number for 2101 in the ELK-RM program's setup page.

Regards,

The current ELKRM does not support encrypted port 2601.


dsiroky,
Should you lose communication to the thermostat from ELKRM, the thermostat will continue to work as programmed. You can adjust the temperature and fan settings from ELKRM on any of the supported thermostats. There is two way feedback of the current temperature and thermostat settings.

Spanky said:

The current ELKRM does not support encrypted port 2601.


dsiroky,
Should you lose communication to the thermostat from ELKRM, the thermostat will continue to work as programmed. You can adjust the temperature and fan settings from ELKRM on any of the supported thermostats. There is two way feedback of the current temperature and thermostat settings.

Click to expand...

Thanks Spanky.

Just to confirm I understand this correctly.

For a thermostat such as the 8870 that is not programmable , ElkRM has the smarts to maintain whatever temperature schedule you desire.

If the ElkRM PC was turned off, then the 8870 would stay on the current temperature.

In the case of the omnipro or RCS communicating thermostats, they would revert to their locally programmed scheduled until communication was restored.

Without ElkRM (just the m1G), I can't control temperature at all (not even via the Ethernet interface)?

Where can I read up to understand this fully?

With any of the communicating thermostats, Rules in the M1 can change their temperature setting and modes of operation. If communication is lost, they will revert to their internal schedule if it is programmed or stay on the last temperature setting. ElkRM and other third party software can change the thermostat settings using the M1's ASCII protocol. They also get feedback as to what the temperature and control settings are set to.

Spanky said:

The current ELKRM does not support encrypted port 2601.

Click to expand...

Is this still true? When is the new ElkRMS coming out, and can that handle the secured port?

I'm contemplating getting elkRMS to control my 8870 from my PDA cellphone from outside the house as it'll be a few months before the CQC handheld viewer is released for the latest beta CQC version. But, the value to me is in controlling it from outside the house, and obviously I don't want to port-forward the non-secured port through the firewall.

Hi there.
My question is to Don Lamb.
Do I get it right, that Thermostat I program and communicate to, has to have the same number as in Aprilaire (8870) protocol response to command "SN ?", and the number under which M1XSP is enrolled into ELK bus has nothing to do with it?
If Thermostat in RP has same number as "SN ?" result, then how M1G "knows" which RS232 port send signal to? Or maybe I need to be explained how to set Thermostat in RP in more detailed way? Haven't found it in Video tutorials.
With respect, Serge.

Serge5757 said:

Hi there.
My question is to Don Lamb.
Do I get it right, that Thermostat I program and communicate to, has to have the same number as in Aprilaire (8870) protocol response to command "SN ?", and the number under which M1XSP is enrolled into ELK bus has nothing to do with it?
If Thermostat in RP has same number as "SN ?" result, then how M1G "knows" which RS232 port send signal to? Or maybe I need to be explained how to set Thermostat in RP in more detailed way? Haven't found it in Video tutorials.
With respect, Serge.

Click to expand...

I am not Don Lamb, but I do have an Elk M1G and four Aprilaire tstats working very well the last 4 years or so.  The overall layout is-
 
Elk M1G <-> M1XSP <-> Aprilaire 8811 procotol adapter <-> Aprilaire 8811 distribution hub <-> tstats
 
So there is 2-way communication between each step.
 
This is my understanding of how it works:
The M1XSP talks to the Elk via RS-485 and converts to RS-232.  The 8811 converts RS-232 into another form of RS-485 that the Aprilaire network uses.  The 8818 simply makes connecting multiple tstats to the Aprilaire network much easier.
 
I followed the directions that came with each of these components and it worked great the first try.

I will also note that Aprilaire has stopped making the 8870 tstat.  The replacement is the much nicer 8800.  (One of my 8870's died so I had to replace).  I will save you all some trouble:  After speaking with an Aprilaire engineer, I learned the 8800 cannot use an AC transformer the way the 8870 did.  All the 8800's much have a separate transformer than the one connected through the 8811 distribution hub.  I have a pic of this in my setup if anyone thinks it would be useful. 

AceCannon!
 
My question was NOT about hardware chain of communication. It's about how to program it. I modify the chain You've drawn:
 
ElkRp<->Automation<-> Thermostats<->Thermostat #X<->Elk M1G <-> M1XSP(ComPort#Y) <-> Aprilaire 8811 procotol adapter <-> Aprilaire 8811 distribution hub <-> tstats<-> Aprilaire 8870 #Z
(Z iz SN? command response)
 
So the question are: 1. How M1G "knows" which ComPort#Y to use to refer to Aprilaire 8811 distribution hub? (My system has 7 M1XSPs with Y= from 1 to 7)
2. How M1G "knows" which Aprilaire 8870 #Z to communicate to? Should X=Z?
 
With respect, Serge.