Structured Panel to A/V Rack Connections

I have done some searching on "enclosure", "structured wiring", "panels", etc. and wasnt able to locate any specific pictures detailing this...

I am likely going to purchase a 42" Leviton rack in the near term and will soon after start trying to co-locate an equipment rack basically right in front of the same area.



I am basically planning to end up putting a rack to the left of the washer - in front of the panel. You can also see my current alarm panel that I installed when the home was built - this will likely be upgraded ONE DAY IN THE FAR FUTURE as the current system works well enough for the time being - its a stand alone Ademco system. Once I start adding some of the nicer HA features I will eventually upgrade to an Elk or Omni.

My main question as of now, is what is the best way to make the connections between wiring that's in the panel (RG6, serial, etc. etc) to the equipment that will be in the rack? Do I leave the cover off of the box, and have the wiring strung between (which I really dont want to do), or do also add in some gang boxes above/below/beside the panel? There shouldnt be MANY connections, but you certainly cant avoid having an equipment rack thats not tied into the wiring (obviously).... so whats the best way to do this in a clean/professional install manner?

I also do quite a bit of DIY building (cabinets, TV stands, etc) and installation work on other homes (surround sound, wall mounted LCDs, whole home surround.. is there any particular place on the forum that may gain anything from me posting some of the install pictures that I have done? If so, where should I put it? Id certainly like to post the pictures somewhere if they can help someone in the future with ideas and what not..

EDIT: SHOWCASE THREAD HERE: http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=12367

Thanks in advance for your help... just joined so I hope to learn a lot here

drvnbysound said:

I also do quite a bit of DIY building (cabinets, TV stands, etc) and installation work on other homes (surround sound, wall mounted LCDs, whole home surround.. is there any particular place on the forum that may gain anything from me posting some of the install pictures that I have done? If so, where should I put it? Id certainly like to post the pictures somewhere if they can help someone in the future with ideas and what not..

Click to expand...

I think we'd all like to see your handy work. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think either Showcase or Wiring Closet sections would work.

Hmmmm. Well first, the easy one - Welcome to CocoonTech!

What are you planning on putting in the rack? I would be a liitle concerned about a rack full of stuff in front of a 42" Leviton can - you will not have proper access to it. If its just a few pieces of equipment can you just put a shelf between the washer/dryer and cabinets?

ANyway, to answer your question more directly, just as an idea - if you have the length, drop the cables in the wall lower and come out of the wall thru a Datacomm plate like this?

project_x said:

drvnbysound said:

I also do quite a bit of DIY building (cabinets, TV stands, etc) and installation work on other homes (surround sound, wall mounted LCDs, whole home surround.. is there any particular place on the forum that may gain anything from me posting some of the install pictures that I have done? If so, where should I put it? Id certainly like to post the pictures somewhere if they can help someone in the future with ideas and what not..

Click to expand...

I think we'd all like to see your handy work. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think either Showcase or Wiring Closet sections would work.

Click to expand...

I think Showcase would probably be best.. I actually tried to start a thread there, but for some reason, not getting any results populating a new thread there.

I have a bunch of VARIOUS pictures stuff from, speaker mounts, tv mounts, cabinets, TV stands, even some car audio work that I would love to share.. any idea why I wasnt able to have any luck there? Is there a min. post count before posting in the Showcase area?

EDIT: The showcase thread got approval.. its here: http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=12367

Steve said:

Hmmmm. Well first, the easy one - Welcome to CocoonTech!

What are you planning on putting in the rack? I would be a liitle concerned about a rack full of stuff in front of a 42" Leviton can - you will not have proper access to it. If its just a few pieces of equipment can you just put a shelf between the washer/dryer and cabinets?

ANyway, to answer your question more directly, just as an idea - if you have the length, drop the cables in the wall lower and come out of the wall thru a Datacomm plate like this?

Click to expand...

I dont think I will ever have a FULL RACK. My home is roughly 1500 sq. ft, 3br, 2 bath, just my wife and myself (no kids currently planned). This is a shot of our floor plan..



There are a couple of items on there that I dont have yet that's listed on there: the 32" LCD, which I think I am actually going to go with an LG as they have a dedicated RS-232 port for control and the security cameras.

Currently we have a 52" Samsung 1080p LCD wall mounted in the living room



(Sorry! Couldnt wait to show that off in the "Showcase" area)

With the size and floorplan of the home, I dont ever see us having more than 4 TVs (Living room, MBR, and each addt'l BR). I do have whole home speakers wired into 6 zones. These are currently being run off the second zone of a Pioneer VSX-01TXH receiver, with a speaker selector (both located in the living room). I'd ideally like to upgrade this EVENTUALLY to something like a Nuvo (in rack), but what I have now works.

In the short term.. I want to get the MBR 32" LCD, and have the STB for it in the utility room. I am also planning to purchase the security cameras within the next 6 months, which I will also have a PC in there as well with a GeoVision video card. The GeoVision card has a composite video output, which I was planning to split and run to the MBR TV, as well as the living room TV. I currently dont have any reason / need to modulate it over a channel, as I just dont need it in every room.

I also plan to move my network equipment (modem, router, switch) into the structured panel .. when we initally made the offer on the home a year ago, it was in construction and I was able to get 2 days of work in (cabling) before drywall went up... in those 2 days I was able to get most all of what I want done.. however, in hindsight I wish I would have done some stuff differently.. mainly, the "office"! My original thoughts were that we always planned on this being a dedicated office, and nothing else.. so I pulled CAT5E home-runs from a the kitchen (counter), MBR, BR2, and Garage (workbench) to the office solely for networking. I also pulled Siamese (RG6 and 18/2) into the office as well, as I figured Id have a computer in here to install the GeoVision card in.. ALL THAT SAID.. Now I realize when we EVENTUALLY sell the house, this is not the ideal place for these runs as other owners may want an actual BR in here (GO FIGURE!).. which is part of why I want to get a panel going and slowly migrate some stuff in the Mech/Laundry room. Not to mention that I now want to run CAT5 to TV locations for media and serial control.

I dont think I will ever have ALL A/V equipment centrally located in the "rack" as it would just be inconvenient for me to have to walk to my laundry room to load a DVD/BD or game into PS3.. so I do plan to leave some equipment in their respective rooms..

I do also plan to do some controlled lighting as well. Ideally, Id probably like to have 85-95% of the current switches swapped to a controlled system. Currently leaning toward a Z-wave solution, as I dont want to spend $100+ per switch for 15 switches.. but thats a whole other thread...

WOW! That was a lot of info.. hopefully that all reads well..

New topics in the showcase forum have to be approved (which I just did). The showcase forum is more about the details, while the Gallery feature should be used to post your pictures.

Dan (electron) said:

New topics in the showcase forum have to be approved (which I just did). The showcase forum is more about the details, while the Gallery feature should be used to post your pictures.

Click to expand...

Ahh! Thanks for that. Would it be best for me to have you delete the showcase forum of mine, and better for me just to use a gallery to share the pictures? Sounds like the best thing.... ???

What you did is fine. You can either point them to pics hosted somewhere else, or use the Gallery feature, and point the image links to there. The only thing I am trying to avoid is people using the attachment feature to upload large pictures.

Dan (electron) said:

What you did is fine. You can either point them to pics hosted somewhere else, or use the Gallery feature, and point the image links to there. The only thing I am trying to avoid is people using the attachment feature to upload large pictures.

Click to expand...

Ahh - understood. I will likely host all pictures I ever post elsewhere and just have them linked in my showcase thread then. Its simply easier for me to do that, so I can share them on multiple forums. Thanks!

Back to the regularly scheduled program...

If needed.. I can certainly put the panel elsewhere.. possibly on the other side of the wall that the alarm panel is currently on - which would put it in the garage. But that general location in the utility room, is likely the only place that I would be able to put any sort of rack in the house for the above said equipment as all of the closets are used for other storage already. Certainly this could be changed, but the spot there in the utility room is out of the way of everything, well ventilated, easily accessible, etc. so it seems that it would be a very good spot of the equipment to me.... Other suggestions would certainly be welcomed - my floor plan is up there, so you can obviously see any other locations that might be a better place... this really goes for either the panel or equipment or both... as I havent started doing anything just yet....

But all in all, I dont really want to put equipment in a generic closet, for the same reasons as me now needing to re-route cabling out of the office, as I know we are going to sell this house eventually, and Id much rather have all of the closets open for future buyers use... Sure, you could say the same thing about the utility room, but its pretty much wasted space in that area.

A 42" can is pretty damn big, why have it at all? Why not just pass everything from the wall to the rack (or cabinet IMHO) and put everything you would have in the can in the cabinet.

I think that is a good location. Of course you won't be able to fit a full height rack there due to the upper cabinets, but you have to work with what you've got.

You can generally put most things in a rack as Collin suggested, but that can also waste a lot of rack space too. For example, I made a RG-6 distribution panel from a blank 2u rack faceplate. I drilled the plate and inserted RG-6 barrel connectors. I was able to squeeze about 45 of them on the plate. I connect all my RG-6 wires to the back of the plate and then connect what I need to (antenna, satellite box, etc) to the front of the plate. But this used up 2u of rack space for a very small piece of equipment that could fit in a wall enclosure. So I'm wasting the same amount of space as a nice size amp in my rack, to accomplish something that I could also put in an enclosure. If you are short of rack space, then this is important.

The things that really don't work well in a rack are related to the alarm equipment. But since you already have a dedicated panel for that, this isn't an issue.

Another option that I thought of when I looked at your floor plan, is to create a rack sized closet in the garage immediately behind the alarm panel. I would make it as small as possible so you don't loose a lot of garage space. You would have to vent it, but I think a supply vent in the lower portion of the laundry room wall with a return vent higer up on that wall would work. You would probably have to add a fan to get god circulaton, but it is a thought. You would only be adding about 50' of heating load, so your current unit should have no problem with the "extra" space. The benefit in doing this is that you could use a full size rack and still retain your extra space in the laundry room.

You would probably have to buy a rack that could extend out from the closet. This would allow you to keep the closet as small as possible and still have access to the rear of the rack for wiring. You would also want to insulate the closet and use an exterior grade door to make sure you kept the "outside" air temps away from the equipment. So this isn't going to be the cheapest option out there.

CollinR said:

A 42" can is pretty damn big, why have it at all? Why not just pass everything from the wall to the rack (or cabinet IMHO) and put everything you would have in the can in the cabinet.

Click to expand...

I was just going to get a 42" simply for the reason of not having to buy a bigger panel later, if it ever got full. The space is there for it, so I didnt want to get a 28" panel and find out when I installed it or even 6-12 months later that I should have bought a 42" in the first place. I've heard stories of this and guys either having to go back and replace with a bigger panel, or adding secondary panels beside the existing one - I want to avoid this even if the 42" is overkill.

As far as having it at all... Why would you want to put CATV, phone, and network distribution modules along with cable modem, router, network switch, etc in a rack/cabinet over having it in a panel? Isnt that the purpose of a structured panel???



Also, that is an exterior wall, so I dont want a gaping hole in the wall to increase thermal losses. It is a space that we are in daily, unlike a basement closet, so I want to have clean terminated connections/wall plates for these connections, not a plethora of cabling hanging out of the wall and running to the rack.

I havent done this before, so please tell me if I am approaching this in a wrong manner.

sic0048 said:

I think that is a good location. Of course you won't be able to fit a full height rack there due to the upper cabinets, but you have to work with what you've got.

You can generally put most things in a rack as Collin suggested, but that can also waste a lot of rack space too. For example, I made a RG-6 distribution panel from a blank 2u rack faceplate. I drilled the plate and inserted RG-6 barrel connectors. I was able to squeeze about 45 of them on the plate. I connect all my RG-6 wires to the back of the plate and then connect what I need to (antenna, satellite box, etc) to the front of the plate. But this used up 2u of rack space for a very small piece of equipment that could fit in a wall enclosure. So I'm wasting the same amount of space as a nice size amp in my rack, to accomplish something that I could also put in an enclosure. If you are short of rack space, then this is important.

The things that really don't work well in a rack are related to the alarm equipment. But since you already have a dedicated panel for that, this isn't an issue.

Another option that I thought of when I looked at your floor plan, is to create a rack sized closet in the garage immediately behind the alarm panel. I would make it as small as possible so you don't loose a lot of garage space. You would have to vent it, but I think a supply vent in the lower portion of the laundry room wall with a return vent higer up on that wall would work. You would probably have to add a fan to get god circulaton, but it is a thought. You would only be adding about 50' of heating load, so your current unit should have no problem with the "extra" space. The benefit in doing this is that you could use a full size rack and still retain your extra space in the laundry room.

You would probably have to buy a rack that could extend out from the closet. This would allow you to keep the closet as small as possible and still have access to the rear of the rack for wiring. You would also want to insulate the closet and use an exterior grade door to make sure you kept the "outside" air temps away from the equipment. So this isn't going to be the cheapest option out there.

Click to expand...

I certainly understand the size limiations a standard sized rack being able to fit in that space. I was actually thinking about building a custom sized rack myself, but will cross that bridge when I get there. As I previously stated, I plan to keep certain equipment in respective rooms - DVD/BD players and/or game consoles for example, because I dont want to have to walk to the laundry room to load a disc for a game/movie in the living room. That said I dont think I will ever need anything like a 43U rack anyway. For now, I guess I need to figure out if I need the panel (which I think I do) and how to mitigate the connections that will inevitably be between the wiring from the wall (whether rack or not) and the rack equipment.

sic0048 said:

You can generally put most things in a rack as Collin suggested, but that can also waste a lot of rack space too. For example, I made a RG-6 distribution panel from a blank 2u rack faceplate. I drilled the plate and inserted RG-6 barrel connectors. I was able to squeeze about 45 of them on the plate. I connect all my RG-6 wires to the back of the plate and then connect what I need to (antenna, satellite box, etc) to the front of the plate. But this used up 2u of rack space for a very small piece of equipment that could fit in a wall enclosure. So I'm wasting the same amount of space as a nice size amp in my rack, to accomplish something that I could also put in an enclosure. If you are short of rack space, then this is important.

Click to expand...

Use ventilated rack shelves, then although they burn space at the front in my case I have a 19"x24" predrilled mounting plate that I can mount stuff on both top and bottom. So my telco and CATV distribution are on the bottom side of the shelf and my modem first router and CCTV baluns on the topside. If you do it right you can mount a patch panel directly above or below as generally patch panels are only a couple inches deep leaving at least 18" on the bottom of the shelf.

drvnbysound said:

I certainly understand the size limiations a standard sized rack being able to fit in that space. I was actually thinking about building a custom sized rack myself, but will cross that bridge when I get there. As I previously stated, I plan to keep certain equipment in respective rooms - DVD/BD players and/or game consoles for example, because I dont want to have to walk to the laundry room to load a disc for a game/movie in the living room. That said I dont think I will ever need anything like a 43U rack anyway. For now, I guess I need to figure out if I need the panel (which I think I do) and how to mitigate the connections that will inevitably be between the wiring from the wall (whether rack or not) and the rack equipment.

Click to expand...

In my case having a wall panel would make for more wiring going between the cabinet and the wall, as it is now all I need is less then 10 Cat5 and 2 RG6QS. Which fits inside a reasonable sized flexible conduit. I still need a wall panel but it won't have the conventional stuff in it.

Yeah I got one of the massive cabinets unfront although space inside is somewhat a concern it hasn't been that bad. My bigger issue is temperature and fire, having everything sealed inside a cabinet allows you some extra perks in that area.