God Bless America

So, I'm interested to get a wide range of opinions on this, and I know this board has all types, both religiously and politically.

Why are we required to stand and take our hat off for God Bless America? It is not our national anthem. The last time I was at a ball game, I stood up (it was the 7th inning stretch, after all), but I did not remove my hat, and a few people started yelling at me. I pretty much ignored them. I am an atheist, after all.

I know there are people out there who advocate for this song to replace our national anthem, but I think it would be a real shame for that to happen and only reinforce the religious intolerance that still exists in this country.

Thoughts? This is the Wiring Closet, where all topics are welcome!

they play god bless america during the 7th inning stretch? Man, that texas state is wacky.

Last time I went to a Giants game, I *think* they played the required sports arena song: "Y'all ready for this"..

actually, i think they do it around major league baseball every sunday, and i also think the yankees do it every game.

You're not required to stand and take off your hat, but you may get yelled at.

Lots of people are religious. The person who has decided to play the song in the stadium 1) is religous, too, or 2) is trying to appeal to the religious sensibilities of the majority of the crowd (it's a marketing gimmick).

I'm pretty sure it's a privately owned stadium, even if tax dollars helped build it. If it was government owned, you could take them to court to try to stop them from playing the song. Since it's private, they can play whatever the people who own it want.

It will take a couple thousand years for religion to fade out, from society. You're just causing yourself grief, letting it bother you. Acceptance is the key concept here.

I used to often discuss religion on other forums. There is an old adage that you shouldn't talk politics or religion at work - it tends to create 'disharmony'. This thread is the first mention I've seen on this forum of religion - I don't think people can discuss religion without becoming emotional, since emotions play such a strong role in spirituality/beliefs.

It's hard to avoid posting in a religion thread for a lot of people - everyone has a strong opinion on the subject. I think the topic of religion may piss off a lot of people here.

Taking off your hat is just a social norm, just like it isn't considered OK to take something out of somebody else's shopping cart at the grocery store even though they don't own it yet. Since it is at a ball game and the lyrics to God Bless America are about about the country that one loves, I would think it is considered a sign of respect for the country, not to faith.

so if I were to sing "Flying Spaghetti Monster Bless America", you would stand up and take your hat off out of respect to the country, but not the faith?

DeLicious said:

actually, i think they do it around major league baseball every sunday, and i also think the yankees do it every game.

Click to expand...

Since it is at a ball game and the lyrics to God Bless America are about about the country that one loves, I would think it is considered a sign of respect for the country, not to faith.

Click to expand...

Hmmm, i've been to perhaps a dozen SF giants games over the past 10 years, I don't recall hearing it there. Then again, the Bay Area is a lot more tolerant than most cities, and 99.9% of folks wouldn't stand for thrusting religion in people's faces.

<begin IVB stoking pot to prove the point>

If folks are curious how the innocent act of saying "God Bless America" could be considered thrusting, think about the non-judeo christian folks. Many of them (correctly) believe that there is more than just the one God, indeed many gods watching over us. By saying "God Bless America", one is being lazy by not specifying which particular deity one is referring to, and which category of blessings one is after. Being lazy during prayer is an affront to all the gods, so playing "God Bless America" as a means to show respect for the country means that now one is forced to choose between:
1) Respecting country, and pissing off their gods
2) Respecting the gods, and pissing off religious single-diety believers.

Religion is an intensely personal choice, and as such should be kept personal. My preference is to never talk about what I may or may not believe in public, certainly sing no songs about God(s) in public, as my (faith or lack of faith) has nothing to do with anybody else. I wish that everyone had that level of respect for others beliefs; perhaps if we got rid of all public references to "God", (Pledge of Allegiance, printed money, etc), folks would think about what this means to them in private, and live their lives more appropriately.

Loudly proclaiming your belief in god is like talking about how good Cinemar is with HA. There's no tangible proof of either from anyone truly independent. At some point, one questions whether you really believe it, or whether you're yelling loudly about it so that other folks will believe it and through sheer #s of believers you'll begin to believe it yourself.

yay! home automation analogies!

the pledge of allegience has been fought in court and lost on the ground that it endorsed no specific religion. i suspect god bless america is meant along the same lines.

that being said, this wasn't meant strictly as a religious discussion. it was more about whether it was right or not for me to leave my hat on, and whether or not i deserved verbal abuse from other fans.

Don't get baited, it's a sucker punch.

If you would leave your hat on when The Macarena comes on, leave it on when God Bless America comes on. Call it your own personal athiestic civil disobedience against references to religion in public places.

already a step ahead of you with the social (not really civil) disobedience, although not even I'm callous enough to compare God Bless America with the Macarena

If anyone has a problem with the fact that their US Currency says "In God We Trust", simply PM me and I'll give you an address where you can mail them. I don't have a problem with that wording, so I don't mind taking those bills off your hands. B)

[Back to the main topic] I don't think you should feel bad about not taking your hat off and no, the other fans should not have badgered you. I personally think the fans were giving you crap about the hat because it is considered a patriotic song more than the fact that it might be considered a religious song. But it isn't our national anthem after all so why the expectation that you should take off you hat. It's just another song out of thousands played at a ball game IMHO. Besides, does society expect a person to take their hat off at the sound of every religious song? No. That's why I think it was more a patriotic thing than a religious thing (and I am a pretty religious person - reformed faith and everything ).

"Flying Spaghetti Monster..." My mother-in-law has one of those FSM emblems on her car (but I'd hesitate to call her a Pastafarian). B)

To my American neighbours:
To add perspective to a situation, it helps to put yourself in someone else's shoes. Try "Ganesh Bless America" on for size. If that serves to alienate you, why would "God Bless America" be less alienating to non-Judeo-Christians? As for putting "In God We Trust" on money ... I wonder what Jesus would say about that! It seems to me that the separation of church and state, started over 230 years ago, is unfinished.

Meanwhile, north of 45:
The city of Montreal has 'Mount Royal' (honestly, a very large hill) at its center. Atop this "mountain" is a tall, illuminated cross. I never thought much about it until the city recently spent big bucks to renovate it (refurbished the structure and added high-tech lighting whose colour can be changed depending on the event). They might as well have spent a fortune erecting an illuminated billboard announcing "Here be Catholics".

Catholicism is the predominate religion in Quebec and has had a long history of involvement in Quebec society, its values, and government. How much so? French-Canadian swear words are typically religious objects such as tabarnacle, host, and chalice. A backlash in the Sixties sought to create a far more secular society and brought about dramatic changes. However, the recent example of spending tax dollars to refurbish a religious symbol indicates we also haven't succeeded in separating church from state.

Not too long ago, a small town in Quebec published a 'code of behaviour' for new immigrants. It was resoundingly denounced because it came across like commandments penned by hayseeds. Gems like "You can't stone your wife" demonstrated a profound lack of knowledge about Muslims. It resulted in a provincial commission to study the problem of 'tolerance' and 'shared values' in our society. It resulted in a travelling circus of public inquiries. They served as venues for the most intolerant of our citizens whose views probably helped reduce immigration and tourism! The conclusion, if you can call it that, was a milquetoast report that indicated we should be more accepting and that the government would lead by example ... except for removing the crucifix in our National Assembly because that was a historical artifact rooted in our heritage. God Bless Quebec; Here be Catholics.

Then again, there are less tolerant places to live. Being booed for wearing a cap during "Ganesh Bless America" is far better than being stoned! Let's give thanks for life's little blessings.

PS
Before someone says Montreal's cross is a symbol of Christians and not simply Catholics ... doesn't know much about Quebec's history. Let's just say that a generation ago, non-Catholics were a 'visible minority' and all that that implies in North American society.

I would say it depends on the hat. So if it was a Cubs hat, consider taking it off and perhaps throwing it away completely... If it was a Cardinals cap then definitely hold on to it.

If it is one of those hats with two beer cans installed, I think it is OK to leave it on as movement could cause the beer to foam too much. Of course, if the cans are empty it might be a good time to take it off and replenish...

It is sung or played at every Yankees home game. Bob Sheppard, the Yankees announcer for over 50 years, would introduce the song a number of ways. Bob would introduce God Bless America by saying "Will you please rise and offer a moment of silent prayer as we remember the service men and woman who are stationed around the globe, and especially remember those who have lost their lives defending our freedom and our way of life."

Bob does mention "silent prayer", but that's the extent of the religious context. We were standing to show thanks and respect to those that serve or have served to protect the greatest country in the world. Part of the respect is to remove your hat. It's not homage to God or any gods; it's a customary show of respect. Regardless of my faith, if I am in a place or situation that has a particular way of showing respect, such as wearing a yarmulka if in a synagogue, I do it out of respect for the people I'm with. It doesn't mean I'm endorsing their beliefs or faith.

There are many religions and beliefs, including atheism. Fortunately, most of us live in places where we can choose our beliefs and religion. Though I may not believe like you, I respect your right to choose, and will not attempt to infringe or disrespect it.

Next time you are at a place where it's customary to remove your hat, do so. Consider respect for your fellow man and not for any religious requirement. I don't see much religious intolerance in America, other than from atheists. That's okay for you not to believe, that's your right. For those that do believe, that's their right. Let us all choose our own path without worrying what others choose.

And I would stand and remove my hat for Flying Spaghetti Monster Bless America if that was the custom.

Thanks for listening,

Kevin

I had the same dilemma couple weeks ago at the Braves/Red Sox series...minus all the booing. I decided not to take the hat off, not because of a strong anti-patriotic or religious thing, but because it wasn't the National Anthem and thats the song you take your hat off for. God Bless America is fine and all, but how about America (My Country Tis of Thee), or This Land is Your Land? No my friend, its a slippery slope and before I know it my hat would be off the the Macarena.

--Jamie