AT&T Uverse

Supposed to get AT&T Uverse installed next week. Will wind up with TV/phone/Internet in a bundle. My talks with sales people about the technical aspects of Uverse has been underwelming. Most technical info I have come up with is by visiting a friend with Uverse to see how it was set up plus Google searches for reviews and manuals. Most reviews seem positive except that I have seen a number of user crys for help about setting up a LAN with port forwarding and other tricky requirements.
Mix in all my HA stuff with static IP's and other non standard wiring tricks and I am concerned that the installer will show up and try to do the installation "by the book" which does not fit my situation. I am comfortable that he can get the phone & TV stuff right but I am concerned how this will disrupt my network.
Anyone here have any suggestions on things to look out for while the installer is here?

I had Verizon FIOS installed in FL last year. My comments are related to Verizon / Verizon Tech which installed said system. I am not sure what types of techs AT&T use. The two are similiar I believe though. The "bundled" deal that I got was quoted as $99. With taxes plus a couple of telephone features the bill is about $130 per month.

I worked with the installer as I was kind of picky regarding the placement of each of the devices used both outside and inside the home of said endeavor.

The box (router) that they installed has coax coming from the fiber box outside (ONT-optical network terminal). The ONT taps into the outside telephone copper. From the ONT they used an existing RG6 to my inside media panel.

The coax plugs into a Verizon combo Wireless, LAN, Coax firewall. It has an interesting and non intuitive GUI. Each of the set top boxes have their own IP and are connected to the router via coax.

I used my own firewall and didn't want to use the Verizon router nor WLAN interface. There are two ways to do this on their router. One is to bridge the WAN link to one LAN port or just open up the firewall from the WAN to one port/IP. I locked up the router trying to bridge the ports. I called support and they were of no help. I ended up resetting the router to its default state then made some adjustments to the subnets and just opened it from the WAN port to the LAN port and shut off the wireless.

Are you using a separate firewall today? If you are just plug in the WAN port of the firewall to the LAN port of the combo box they provide.

Speeds are better than Comcast up north. Will post a couple of Toast dot net graphs.

The Verizon installer basically knew the mechanics of the install but not really any detailed LAN/WAN stuff. He was going to setup the firewall by running a configuration CD on one of the PCs in the home.

The television FIOS set top boxes are Motorola based. I am not impressed with these set top boxes. I have a Toshiba 42" LCD and the HDMI doesn't work with this set top box. It is a documented problem. I had to use component video cables and audio cables from the set top box to the LCD. Calling Verizon regarding issues. They acknowledged concern and stated its a Motorola problem.

The phone service (replacing the copper) is not what I expected. There are occasional drop outs while on calls and although its using fiber it has a VOIP quality to it.

PaulD said:

Supposed to get AT&T Uverse installed next week. Will wind up with TV/phone/Internet in a bundle. My talks with sales people about the technical aspects of Uverse has been underwelming. Most technical info I have come up with is by visiting a friend with Uverse to see how it was set up plus Google searches for reviews and manuals. Most reviews seem positive except that I have seen a number of user crys for help about setting up a LAN with port forwarding and other tricky requirements.
Mix in all my HA stuff with static IP's and other non standard wiring tricks and I am concerned that the installer will show up and try to do the installation "by the book" which does not fit my situation. I am comfortable that he can get the phone & TV stuff right but I am concerned how this will disrupt my network.
Anyone here have any suggestions on things to look out for while the installer is here?

Click to expand...

I have a friend that has it. He did not realize until after it was installed, that although it can record 4 things at once, only 1 of them can be HD. (720)

There will be the main hub/router that is connected to your demarc and then the regular set top boxes. I think there are 2 brands in use, I know one of them is 2-Wire. Most techs don't know the LAN/WAN/PC stuff, it really depends on the installer. Some of them are seasoned vets that are really sharp and some of them are newbs with only a few basic installs under their belt. Luck of the draw. But if you get a newb and he gets stuck, he should be calling his peers or manager for help, but don't expect them to come in and know how to configure the router the way you want. Just make sure you get the admin password for the router and you can then make whatever changed you want. But don't expect it to be a high end router with dd-wrt type configurability, its pretty basic.

The STBs can be wired with either Cat5 or RG6, Cat5 being preferred. If you already have a good cable to the location you want they will use that otherwise they will run what they need (usually).

I don't have it yet personally (not scheduled till around August) but almost everyone I know that has it for the most part really likes it. My sister had Comcast and now U-Verse and she likes U-Verse much better. It's still a fairly new product and its improving all the time. I believe some areas can get 2 simultaneous HD streams but it depends on the tech in the neighborhood and your distances which ultimately determine signal strength.

I have u-verse and for the most part it works pretty well. The 2-wire modem they gave me has frozen up maybe 3 times in 1 1/2 years, so no big deal really. It's a pretty standard SOHO router. I think it blocks just about everything from the WAN side and allows (egress) from the LAN.

One big caveat: when dealing with support on a couple of occasions, I got the distinct impression that they could access the router and reconfigure it remotely. That also means they can access your network unless you take additional precautions.

I have configured a firewall behind the u-verse device which has a WAN interface on the LAN side of the 2-wire router. Essentially, I have created a DMZ, but my entire network is behind my firewall. So, while they can access the 2-wire, they cannot access my network.

I also had to call to get port 25 outbound unblocked (I have a server in a data center). That was no problem at all, until they installed the tv service, at which point I had to call back in.

All in all, I am pretty pleased with the service.

mstarks01 said:

I have configured a firewall behind the u-verse device which has a WAN interface on the LAN side of the 2-wire router. Essentially, I have created a DMZ, but my entire network is behind my firewall. So, while they can access the 2-wire, they cannot access my network.

Click to expand...

Had not thought about them getting access to my network but I am sure you are right. I am not a hard core network guy. I know just enough to be really dangerous but I have been able to setup, config and debug my current network after a lot of agony, research and phone calls. I currently have a DSL modem feeding my Linksys WRT600N router and multiple switches which controls my network. The DSL modem supposedly uses a 192.168.1.254 address (per label on modem) but I have not been able to validate that. The Uverse RG (Residential Gateway) router supposely uses the same 192.168.1.254 address. Meanwhile, my WRT600N router uses 192.168.1.1 for an address. To me that suggests that I could place my WRT600N router behind the RG so I could run the same way you are doing. I realize that would mean my router as well as the RG would need some setting changed to insure they were playing well together.
If this is doable, a good network person could probably get it done within an hour. But for me, it would cost me a lot more hours of agony and numerous phone calls to get the kinks worked out. Meanwhile, my WAF stock would plummet to new lows while the system is not working.

Paul,
Let me know if you need any help configuring it.

Pete

I called Uverse today and got hooked up with a technical person. Very helpful and was able to answer most of my questions. A few of my questions related to interfacing with my current setup which they could not answer. Said I needed to let the installer look at my setup and determine the best approach. They did acknowledge that getting an installer who understood much about networking was a hit or miss situation. Would probably need call Uverse help desk for some of the loose ends. I did find a manual on the internet for the Uverse router (2Wire 3800HGV-B ) and it appeared that I could config it to do what I wanted.
Several things I found interesting while talking to the help desk today:
1) Network items for some brands of equipment do not play well with the Uverse equipment. They did not provide brand names but said that my Linksys items did not appear to have a history of interface problems.
2) Not all security monitoring services use equipment that is compatible with Uverse. No explanation on why that situation exists. Did not provide a list of who is on the OK list but did mention that Brinks was OK. I do not use monitoring right now but they said I need make sure a service provider can accomodate Uverse.

I have connected my HAI Panel in FL (LBK - near Sarasota & Bradenton) FIOS telco to NextAlarm and have tested it to work well. (although I see noticed a wierd VOIP quality of the converted copper to fiber telco line). I believe I was first or second house in the 50 house subdivision to utilize FIOS. Did noticed that Verizon was laying more fiber down a couple of weeks back. Historically the ISP providers were using DSL and BB (cable) in the subdivision.

As previously stated I locked up my modem (router) configuring it, reset and just opened it to my firewall. My preference is to insure that the ISP has access to my set top units but not my network. I changed my FIOS router password anyways. Most of the AT&T Uverse installation data probably comes from user / installer experiences logged into their help desk DB. My Linksys FW in FL (using DD-WRT) is interfaced to one ethernet interface on the router. The rest of my personal network is behind this box. I decided not to utilize their box other than one NAT address to my FW. I just finished buidling a small footprint terminal box which I converted to a Smoothwall firewall (using a CF card) which I most likely will put into place substiting the Linksys FW piece and just utilize that as an AP. So future FIOS ISP topology would be:

- FIOS Router = = > Set top boxes and FW
- FW (smoothwall) = = > red=FIOS router green=wired network blue=wireless network (Linksys AP).



Doing some speed testing a couple of weeks ago saw similiar speeds / utilization / etc to my Comcast BB connection up north which works for me. The FIOS router does do some QOS but I couldn't find these settings in the box configuration (therefore lockup).

Here is a thread related to the FIOS adventure using a Westell modem (hybrid combo connections with ethernet and coax).

FIOS

Been doing a lot of research on how to put my own router & network behind the Uverse RG (Residential Gateway) in lieu of trying to use the RG as my network router. Lots of good reasons to do this (security, performance, etc). In this process I have learned a lot and (I think) I have broke the code about how to get it done right. I thought I would pass it along what I have learned in case somelse here is headed in this same direction. I will not be able to validate this until Jan 26 when they install my Uverse.
1) The Uverse RG is a 2 Wire 3800HGV-B unit that handles all the incoming signals and routes them to the right devices (TV's, voice and network). Very interesting device but it has some "features" which force you to hook up and config devices in ways that are not always the same as you might expect from a typical router.
2) The vast majority of problems I found that people had in trying to config a router behind the RG were tied to the RG features and subnet setup on the RTG and your own router to avoid IP conflict issues. The RG wants the subnet of 192.168.1.x for its own use and you cannot use that same address set for your own router. Must use something else like 192.168.2.x. This was one of the main problems people had...even experienced network people. The next biggest problem was how to do the equivalent of port forwarding (called pin holes in 2Wire literature). The RG has a feature called DMZPlus intended to use for this situation but it is not your normal port forwarding. Using DMZPlus, you assign a single device (your own router) to receive all your internet traffic except for some traffic that has been routed elsewhere by the RG. I think the RG is linking your public IP address to the MAC address of your router. In this scenerio, your router will see your public IP address and handle that traffic OK. Later I list the steps that I found from the Uverse forum that is supposed to make everything line up properly.
3) Although you can hook up TV's with Coax or Cat5 cable, you must do it from the RG. Cannot do it via your own router/LAN
4) RG to router connection is via RN LAN port and your router WAN port. Cannot use one of your router LAN ports for this.
5) Must disable wireless on either the RG or your router to prevent problems
6) There a lot of advice out there from various forums on how to make this work right and a bunch of it is wrong. Do not read a single posting without reading the entire thread. Many posters offer a "solution" or "guidance" early in a thread but later in the thread it all falls apart.
7) Some security systems have problems with the Uverse setup because it uses digital signals. This may or may not be an issue depending on how Uverse arrives at your house (copper vs fiber) and how everything is set up.
8) Since Uverse is digital IP, disruptions in flow of power to the RG is a major issue. Unlike normal phone service where line power comes from the phone company, power to your RG comes from your house power. To avoid power problems, the Uverse setup includes a Belkin UPS dedicated to the RG.
9) The RG manual provides guidance on how to assign multiple public static IP addresses to individual servers behind your own router is you have a block of IP addresses to alighn with individual servers. I do not have that situation so I have not looked into that area but appears that can be done.

Above are the highlights on issues I saw that others were having. Lots of other snags to run into.

Among the material I have found, here are a list of steps I found on the Uverse forum to perform when trying to set up your own router behind a RG. Sequence is important to insure you get your router assigned as the single device in the DMZPlus zone.
1) Start with RG that is using the default setup (192.168.1.254, wireless on, etc.).
2) Plug-in the STBs (Set Top Boxes) into the desired ports and then a single computer into another port (do not yet plug in your own router).
3) Verify everything is working properly (all STBs work, your computer works, etc.).
4) Use a system that is connected to your own router (not the RG), log into the router's config page and set it up to use 192.168.2.* addresses with a netmask of 255.255.255.0.
5) Connect the WAN (or Internet port) of the router to a free LAN port on the RG.
6) Open a browser on the system connected to the RG, browse around between a few different pages, and wait for it to complain about a router behind a router.
7) Enable DMZplus on the browser page (which will ask you to power cycle your router, then click the "done" button on the page).
8) Verify that everything is still working for all devices (your computer and STBs connected to the RG) as well as the systems connected to your router (which should now be connecting to the Internet and anything else you want).
9) Disconnect the computer from the RG and plug it into your router (or just have it connect to wireless, whatever the case may be).

Hopefully I have the story straight now. After my install, I will pass along any new lessons I have learned.

Wish me luck.

Good Luck Paul.

For Verizon's FIOS I ended up just assigning a static address to the inside router and shutting off the FIOS FW to this static IP. The alternative was to bridge the two connections which I believe had been done but I chose not to do it. I'll have to look again but I also believe that I was able to reconfigure the inside of the FIOS network to a smaller subnet (28 bit mask). I don't believe that I could adjust the scope of the DHCP though. I remember that the gui was very colorful, not too intuitive and no meat to it (maybe done this way on purpose).

BTW let me know if your HDMI cable works from your set top box (Motorola) to the LCD TV. I am curious as it didn't work with my 42" Toshiba.

PaulD said:

2) The vast majority of problems I found that people had in trying to config a router behind the RG were tied to the RG features and subnet setup on the RTG and your own router to avoid IP conflict issues. The RG wants the subnet of 192.168.1.x for its own use and you cannot use that same address set for your own router. Must use something else like 192.168.2.x. This was one of the main problems people had...even experienced network people. The next biggest problem was how to do the equivalent of port forwarding (called pin holes in 2Wire literature). The RG has a feature called DMZPlus intended to use for this situation but it is not your normal port forwarding. Using DMZPlus, you assign a single device (your own router) to receive all your internet traffic except for some traffic that has been routed elsewhere by the RG. I think the RG is linking your public IP address to the MAC address of your router. In this scenerio, your router will see your public IP address and handle that traffic OK. Later I list the steps that I found from the Uverse forum that is supposed to make everything line up properly.

Click to expand...

There's really only one thing you need to keep in mind. Your router is simply a client to the uverse device. Think of it as another computer on the network. Give it a static IP in the same network as the uverse LAN side. Plug the WAN port of your router into one of the switch ports on the uverse router. Now, all of your clients plug into your router and get an IP from the dhcp pool. Anything that comes from ATT and needs to be on the network goes onto the ATT network. That's really all there is to it.

Got my Uverse installed and it has been a painless transition. My installer was generally familiar with the router-behind-a router issue and we were able to set up my router working with the Uverse RG with minimal issues. Everything is up and running OK as of now.
However, I did have one scare as he was starting his setup. To get good Uverse performance, they want you to be within 3000 ft of the node (aka..VRAD) where fiber changes to copper. Although I was easily in that range on a straight line basis, when he tested my lines, it showed that I was about 3400 ft from the VRAD. That had the potential to reduce my signal level too low to get the level of service I had requested. He called in another technician and they did some changes at my house and the VRAD which gave me the required signal level. In the end, they had me set up at the "2500 level" (refers to bandwith) which was required to get me my service.

Good news Paul.

Did the technician utilize CAT5E or RG6 from you outside box to your indoor U-Verse router?

Does an HDMI cable work between your set top box and your LCD TV?

pete_c said:

Did the technician utilize CAT5E or RG6 from you outside box to your indoor U-Verse router?

Does an HDMI cable work between your set top box and your LCD TV?

Click to expand...

I had the option of using Cat5e or coax at almost every step. I requested to use my Cat5e with no coax involved at all. I already had Cat5e from demark to my HA closet so we used that outlet on my HA patch panel as the connection point to outside world. Then he ran a RJ11 cord (twisted pair) to the RG and another RJ11 (twisted pair) back from RG to my HA cabinet where it connected to my telephone system including my OPII.
For TV, he used my existing Cat5e wiring from my HA closet to outlets throughout the house to connect to the STB's. The STB then connected to my LCD TV's via HDMI cable. All are set for 1080i feed to my TV's.
The RG has 4 each RJ45 jacks to feed its own LAN so 3 of them were used for my 3 TV's and the 4th fed the WAN port on my Linksys WRT600N router. To make the routers work together, I had to change my router to get its IP via DHCP from the RG and also make a setting change on the RG to let it pass network traffic straight thru to my router. It works as is but I need to go in and make some changes from DHCP to static IP in a few places so future power cycles do not throw me some IP address curves. I also disabled the RG wireless since I wanted to use my own router for wireless.

I asked about performance differences between coax and Cat5e. Installer told me that coax might be marginally better but it would be hard for me to see the differences. However, there are some situations when they must use coax due to shielding in coax. He said that some houses near TV broadcast antennas have problems with the Cat5e picking up interference from the TV broadcast antennas. In those areas, they are forced to use the coax.

With my setup, I do not use coax anywhere. Guess I will pull all my coax distribution components and put them in the for sale section of the forum