Are Natural Gas Detectors Necessary?

mrshanes

Member
Are natural gas detectors important? Is anyone using them? Our new house will have the following natural gas appliances connected:
Furnace
Boiler
Hot Water Heater
3 Fireplaces
Wall Heater in Garage
Cooktop

In our previous house we bought a new gas range/oven, and it wasn't hooked up properly. Shortly after the installers left we could smell gas. We caught it quickly and shut it off, but if we had been away or sleeping it could have been much worse. I don't hear much talk about people using them and they seem to be relatively expensive. I'll be prewiring new construction, so now's the time to do it.
Thoughts? Opinions?

Thanks,
Shane
 
Personnel opinion is I would run the wires to all of those locations and as time and funds permit add the detectors.

I would also run wiring for the usual smoke detectors, CO Detectors, and also water sensors.

In my house I put a zone expander on each level of the house so that if I need to add something in the future the wire run will be minimal.
 
Invest in a CO detector instead. You'll be able to smell the natural gas before the detector can. Get lots of smoke and heat detectors, a few stand-alone CO detectors. If you want to test for gas, test for Radon. Its in far more homes than you think, and one of the leading causes of death. And its odorless.
 
Another opinion. Safety is a relative thing, right? Detectors serve two purposes, let you know there's a problem so you can remedy it or get clear and if you are not home, notify you and/or someone else that there is a problem so someone can react. Friends of ours recently lost their home because they were having their floors refinished so they moved out for the weekend. The workers left varnish-soaked rags in the attached garage which ignited and burnt their house to the ground over night while the smoke detectors screamed away. They lost everything including their pets who were in the basement.

I have smoke/heat detectors, CO detectors, water leak detectors and gas detectors as well as a security and surveillance system (paranoid?) because they were easy to install at the same time. I have been using the Macurco GD-2A combustible Gas Detectors and the Macurco CM-15A CO detectors running from my HAI panel. Other than the fact that they look a little commercial, roughly 4x4 inches, they have held up well. I test them annually but fortunately have not had to use them. I have them set up to text our cell phones with a description of the problem and call out to a service.

In the case of a gas leak, knowing there's a problem before walking into the house could be very useful. Keep in mind that residential gas explosions are rare and are usually caused by excavation outside the home but its nice to know when there's a problem so you can notify a professional to check it out. I use automated shut-off valves on my water main so HAI can close it if there's a leak detected but have yet to install such a device on my gas main. Maybe someday.

One note, placement is critical so make sure you understand and follow the manufacturer's guidelines if you decide to pursue it. Also, other things have been known to trigger false alarms with gas detectors such as hairspray so keep that in mind as well when placing the units.

Just something to think about.

Rick
 
What are the statistics on natural gas leaks leading to a disaster?  That would inform whether it's enough of a safety issue to warrant monitoring.  I'm not aware of a code requirement for NG monitoring, which suggests the risk to life safety might be low.  Or perhaps it's in newer codes I'm not aware of.
 
That being said, when I was purchasing our current house, a home inspector did find and confirm a couple NG leaks in the attic, where it turned out the NG lines to the two furnaces were improperly plumbed using hard pipe instead of the code mandated flex pipe.  Apparently, over time vibration from the blower fan loosened the pipe seal on the hard pipe connection, resulting in the leaks.  I'm not sure I would have noticed it had the inspector not caught it.  Nonetheless, I don't know whether or not an NG sensor mounted in a ventilated attic would have been sensitive enough to ever detect that a problem existed.
 
These days, depending on where you live, you might even want one to detect fracking gas, as there wouldn't necessarily be an odor associated with it.
 
NeverDie said:
These days, depending on where you live, you might even want one to detect fracking gas, as there wouldn't necessarily be an odor associated with it.
 
There's movement around these parts to ban fracking in city limits for general environmental concerns...only one city (Denton) so far but it's a start.  Oh and the Texas House just passed a bill to ban in all city limits too.  Just needs Senate and Governor approval now.  
 
 
Though I really doubt that a fracking operation would allow enough gas into the air to cause a sensor to trigger in or on your house.  That would mean that they are allowing a lot of $$$ to just float away.  
 
...I need to check my furnace tonight...I don't think they plumbed a flex pipe to it...
 
Radon is the gas people should check with. In my last two houses, both have had high radon, and I live in an area not known for high radon.  Also, be careful with the short-term tests. I monitor my radon level daily, and can vary a great amount during the day. If you think you need natural gas sensors, get them, but don't ignore radon wherever you live, and test with a longterm test.
 
Do some Google searchs and you will see that the death from radon is MANY times higher than from natural gas. Your odds of dying from radon at the 4 pCi/L (which is the standard limit) is 23 per 1000 people.  If your level is 20 pCi/L which isn't terrible unusal is 11 per 100 people. Yes that is OVER 10%.
 
ano said:
Radon is the gas people should check with. In my last two houses, both have had high radon, and I live in an area not known for high radon.  Also, be careful with the short-term tests. I monitor my radon level daily, and can vary a great amount during the day. If you think you need natural gas sensors, get them, but don't ignore radon wherever you live, and test with a longterm test.
 
Do some Google searchs and you will see that the death from radon is MANY times higher than from natural gas. Your odds of dying from radon at the 4 pCi/L (which is the standard limit) is 23 per 1000 people.  If your level is 20 pCi/L which isn't terrible unusal is 11 per 100 people. Yes that is OVER 10%.
I'm curious: What do you use to monitor your radon levels daily?  I did the test where I laid out the activated charcoal packets (or whatever it was) for a period of days and then mailed it in for analysis.  IIRC, our results were at about the national average, so I didn't fret over it.
 
I know of two devices can do it, and i have both.  The first is:
SafetySiren ProSeries3  http://www.amazon.com/Safety-Siren-Series3-Radon-Detector/dp/B000CEAY64
 
This device has been around a long time, and I think is pretty accurate. The problem that I have heard with it is that over time, as it ages, it tends to read high.  I really haven't seen this myself. It goes for about $130.
 
The second one is pretty new. It is called the Corentium 223 http://www.amazon.com/Corentium-223-Digital-Electronic-Monitor/dp/B00H2VOSP8
 
I've had this for several months and i really like it. First its battery operated instead of requiring 120V like the SafetySiren.  Second, it uses a different method of detection which I here is more accurate over longterm. This gives you a 1 day, 7 day, and long-term average.  This device is a bit more money. About $255 on Amazon.
 
It is amazing how much radon levels can vary day-to-day, but most interesting they vary by season, and they vary with the weather.  When it rains they tend to be high, which I'm guessing is because the water dropping in the soil pushes the radon up in your house. Also the low barometric pressure allows it to rise better. (Just my guess.)
 
With my current house, which we had completely gutted,  I sprayed a product called Radon Seal on the cement slap before they installed the tile. I also tried to seal any cracks with silicon.  I did this before i even tested for radon because its relatively inexpensive, but because the construction went quickly, I didn't have time to do a great job. 
 
After the home was finished, I tested and i get an average of about 2.64 pCi/L which isn't terrible. The US limit is 4 pCi/L but there really is no safe limit. Today mine reads 5.15 pCi/L but I have seen up to 10 pCi/L.  I have head of levels of 80 - 100 pCi/L around here, and again, this isn't an area known for high radon. I will probably add radon venting when I get some time.
 
My previous house averaged about 5 pCi/L with peaks of 10 - 15 pCi/L.  I did have a power vent added by a radon company, and the levels dropped to about 1.5 pCi/L average. Basically is a simple fan that sucks air from under the slab, and vents it.
 
ano said:
I know of two devices can do it, and i have both.  The first is:
SafetySiren ProSeries3  http://www.amazon.com/Safety-Siren-Series3-Radon-Detector/dp/B000CEAY64
 
This device has been around a long time, and I think is pretty accurate. The problem that I have heard with it is that over time, as it ages, it tends to read high.  I really haven't seen this myself. It goes for about $130.
 
The second one is pretty new. It is called the Corentium 223 http://www.amazon.com/Corentium-223-Digital-Electronic-Monitor/dp/B00H2VOSP8
 
I've had this for several months and i really like it. First its battery operated instead of requiring 120V like the SafetySiren.  Second, it uses a different method of detection which I here is more accurate over longterm. This gives you a 1 day, 7 day, and long-term average.  This device is a bit more money. About $255 on Amazon.
 
It is amazing how much radon levels can vary day-to-day, but most interesting they vary by season, and they vary with the weather.  When it rains they tend to be high, which I'm guessing is because the water dropping in the soil pushes the radon up in your house. Also the low barometric pressure allows it to rise better. (Just my guess.)
 
With my current house, which we had completely gutted,  I sprayed a product called Radon Seal on the cement slap before they installed the tile. I also tried to seal any cracks with silicon.  I did this before i even tested for radon because its relatively inexpensive, but because the construction went quickly, I didn't have time to do a great job. 
 
After the home was finished, I tested and i get an average of about 2.64 pCi/L which isn't terrible. The US limit is 4 pCi/L but there really is no safe limit. Today mine reads 5.15 pCi/L but I have seen up to 10 pCi/L.  I have head of levels of 80 - 100 pCi/L around here, and again, this isn't an area known for high radon. I will probably add radon venting when I get some time.
 
My previous house averaged about 5 pCi/L with peaks of 10 - 15 pCi/L.  I did have a power vent added by a radon company, and the levels dropped to about 1.5 pCi/L average. Basically is a simple fan that sucks air from under the slab, and vents it.
Interesting!  Even though you've measured some high peak amounts, is it just the average that matters, or is there some threshhold for negative effects that can happen from exposure to the shorter duration, peak amounts?  Regardless, I'm glad you found a way to re-mediate your situation.
 
NeverDie said:
Interesting!  Even though you've measured some high peak amounts, is it just the average that matters, or is there some threshhold for negative effects that can happen from exposure to the shorter duration, peak amounts?  Regardless, I'm glad you found a way to re-mediate your situation.
You know, its like most things, they don't really know.  Some say small amounts of natural gas is harmful, other don't think so.  i just installed a natural gas double oven and cooktop, and there are no venting requirements at all. They say the natural gas burns so clean that CO levels are low. 
 
Radon is one of those radioactive things that they think can cause problems 20 years down the line. 20 years ago they never even tested for it, so who knows if my childhood home was high or low. Also if you work at home like me, its probably a bigger deal then if your away all day. But how about at work? Has your employer tested? Probably not.
 
ano said:
You know, its like most things, they don't really know.  Some say small amounts of natural gas is harmful, other don't think so.  i just installed a natural gas double oven and cooktop, and there are no venting requirements at all. They say the natural gas burns so clean that CO levels are low. 
 
Radon is one of those radioactive things that they think can cause problems 20 years down the line. 20 years ago they never even tested for it, so who knows if my childhood home was high or low. Also if you work at home like me, its probably a bigger deal then if your away all day. But how about at work? Has your employer tested? Probably not.
You might enjoy watching Pandora's Promise .  You can stream it from Netflix.  It begins with the observation that ordinary background radiation levels can vary quite a bit depending on where you live in the world, but it makes the surprising claim that it doesn't matter--that the expected differences in mortality that theory would predict don't appear to manifest at those levels.  Obviously, there are possible confounding factors, but if it's true across the board then that would be hard to explain.  Also, even if true, it might not generalize to low-level radon exposure, but then again....  Might be worth tracking down the source for that claim to see if it has any merit.
 
NeverDie said:
You might enjoy watching Pandora's Promise .  You can stream it from Netflix.  It begins with the observation that ordinary background radiation levels can vary quite a bit depending on where you live in the world, but it makes the surprising claim that it doesn't matter--that the expected differences in mortality that theory would predict don't appear to manifest at those levels.  Obviously, there are possible confounding factors, but if it's true across the board then that would be hard to explain.  Also, even if true, it might not generalize to low-level radon exposure, but then again....  Might be worth tracking down the source for that claim to see if it has any merit.
Radation levels are changing all the time, so its very hard to study the effects, but there are some indirect results its not great for us. In 1992, in the US, there were about 5.5 people for every 100,000 diagnosed with thyroid cancer. In 2012 the number of people per 100,00 diagnosed with thyroid cancer had jumped to 15. So over a period of 20 years, the rate of this cancer has tripled. And thyroid cancer is believed to be caused by radiation exposure. I've had it as will over 1% of people in the US. Luckily its a very curable cancer in most cases.
 
Lung cancer, unfortunately, usually doesn't have such a happy ending. They believe smoking causes 90% of the cases, and radon causes many of the other 10%.  (Also note that the death of many smokers is believed to be accelerated by exposure to radon.) Of course there is never 100% proof of anything.
 
Here is how I look at it. Testing for radon costs $15 to $30  and if you need to add a power vent that costs about $1200 to add.  With it or without it the odds are you won't die of lung cancer unless you smoke. But lets say sometime in the future you or someone in your family is diagnosted with lung cancer when you DIDN'T attempt to test or fix the radon problem in your house. How would you feel? And I'm sure you know that lung cancer is the leading cancer killer of men and women in the U.S.   Lung cancer takes more lives than breast, prostate, colon and pancreatic cancer combined, and 1 and 5 have never smoked.
 
Is lung cancer and radon linked? Who knows? But here is another fact.  In the early 1900's, the incidence of lung cancer was pretty low. Cigarette smoking became popular in the 1940's and 1950's and lung cancer rates skyrocked. But in a large survey conducted in 1960, only 1/3 of doctors believed there was a link between cigarette smoking and cancer. 2/3 of US doctors didn't believe the link existed.
 
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