Z-Wave Home Theater/Lighting Control - Newbie

I apologize in advance because these are some basic questions. I have searched quite a bit but I don't understand the basics which makes some things difficult to follow.
I am in the process of building a theater and decided (rather late in the project) that it makes sense to add as much home automation or similar technology into the build. I am a DIY'er and building the whole thing myself. I have decided to go with Zwave since it seems to be inexpensive and looks rather easy according to the things that I have read.
But I am getting a little overwhelmed now. I want to find a way to keep all of my components in a rack in the basement and distribute them to other tv's in the house. I see that not only can you do that but it seems to be a main requirement of most Theater builds. I just don't understand the control portion of it. I know I can run HDMI via ethernet and am in the process of doing that. I also have some very long (75ft) HDMI cable so I don't think that it will be a problem as far as getting the video there. I have an Integra DTC 9.8 processor with 3 zones (two HDMI outs but 3rd zone is audio only) so I know I can run two things at once at the very least. I also have an HDMI switcher in case although its a cheap kind. I figure I can program something that makes sense but I don't understand how you will be able to control things from upstairs. I understand Zwave uses RF technology so you can run the remote anywhere but how do I control the items that have IR or Bluetooth (PS3). I guess I can get the Micasa Vera but I still don't get how it talks to my TV's and ps3, wii, xbox360, etc.

Here are the specifics of what I am going to have in my rack:
My setup will be as follows:
Basement Theater:
The basement will contain a projector based theater and recording studio. The automation does not need to apply to the studio portion and I don't even know what can be done with it so lets forgot that for now.
Equipment:
DVR (Scientific Atlanta - Cablevision)
Regular HDMI cablebox (Scientific Atlanta)
PS3
Integra DTC-9.8
Joytech 3 way HDMI switcher with Remote and IR sensor
Couple of Amps (not used in other rooms.. yet)
Xbox 360 (will the game controllers even work that far away... do I need to buy an extender of some kind?)
Wii (same question)
Dlink router/Switches
Audio Control DIVA (does not need control)
Projector (TBD but either epson or JVC)
Intermatic HA06 Light Dimmers



Family Room
Panasonic 58"S1 Plasma

Bedroom
Sony KDLV52 LCD TV
Sony Blu Ray Player (in closet)

I want to access as much as I can from the basement to the other TV's.

I can still run more cable. Do I run more ethernet? I'm assuming thats what we need to control all of these guys. What kind of remote do we use? Logitech 890 or equivalent or can we get an IPAD now? DO I need a PC running all of the time? I know it sounds like I haven't done my research but I've been reading a lot, but it seems like the conversations are a little over my head since I don't understand the basics. I couldn't find a beginners guide to zwave that answered these questions. They talk mostly about lighting and thermostats.

I am not a Z-wave user (I use insteon for lighting and other device control). I cannot help but suspect, however, that you are expecting too much from Z-wave. As far as I understand, it does not distribute video. It may be possible to set up to react to IR input, but I believe the idea that you are going to use Z-wave as a controller for your theater is a bit beyond what one can reasonably expect. I also expect that this is why you are finding very little about using Z-wave for your purposes...it won't do it.

Z-wave has no use for cables, including cat-5/6. The only cable that matters is power to the Z-wave modules and power to the device being controlled by the module. There is no communication over wires. Like most automation devices, Z-wave devices communicate with other Z-wave devices. One device can control (on, off, dim, bright) another. I understand that there are z-wave-enabled door locks. Perhaps there are others. Myt recommendation is to forget Z-wave for theater control.

Another suggestion that I offer is to be a bit more concise about your question. One has to read through a lot to even understand what it is that you are asking, if anything. I have read through it several times and I am still not sure I understand what it is that you are asking.

oberkc said:

I am not a Z-wave user (I use insteon for lighting and other device control). I cannot help but suspect, however, that you are expecting too much from Z-wave. As far as I understand, it does not distribute video. It may be possible to set up to react to IR input, but I believe the idea that you are going to use Z-wave as a controller for your theater is a bit beyond what one can reasonably expect. I also expect that this is why you are finding very little about using Z-wave for your purposes...it won't do it.

Z-wave has no use for cables, including cat-5/6. The only cable that matters is power to the Z-wave modules and power to the device being controlled by the module. There is no communication over wires. Like most automation devices, Z-wave devices communicate with other Z-wave devices. One device can control (on, off, dim, bright) another. I understand that there are z-wave-enabled door locks. Perhaps there are others. Myt recommendation is to forget Z-wave for theater control.

Another suggestion that I offer is to be a bit more concise about your question. One has to read through a lot to even understand what it is that you are asking, if anything. I have read through it several times and I am still not sure I understand what it is that you are asking.

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Thanks for your response.

Basically, I just want to know what is the simplest way to control my Rack in the basement that has two cableboxes, PS3, etc at two other locations (Family Room and Bedroom). This is assuming I properly distribute the Audio/Video using my Integra processor and use the multiple zones that it has available. I was under the impression I could plug everything into one central processor for control that runs everything off of wifi or RF or something regardless of where you are in the house.

Perhaps, it is best to use the Zwave just for lighting control and use something else for A/V control that also talks to Zwave components if you ever wanted to add them to the mix?

Perhaps, it is best to use the Zwave just for lighting control and use something else for A/V control that also talks to Zwave components if you ever wanted to add them to the mix?

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I think you will find this correct. While you might be able to enable/disable power to your AV system using Z-wave, the ability to provide serious control functionality is likely beyond Zwave capability. I see that there are hand-held remotes that also contol Z-wave devices, but this looks like a solution you describe as "something else for A/V control that also talks to Zwave".

Assuming that all your devices are controllable by IR signals, my suggestion for control of AV systems in other rooms is best done through RF remote control to a base station, which converts the signal to IR for the components. Some harmony remotes have this capability. I use a Universal Devices remote for this. Another option is an IR extender. This is where there is an IR reciever in one location, linked by RF to an IR transmitter at your equipment rack.

If you want to experiment with a combo RF/IR Z-Wave remote like the Harmony 890 which you can buy used for less than $100 or you can give the Monster combo remote a try as its being "given" away new at less than $100 these days.

pete_c said:

If you want to experiment with a combo RF/IR Z-Wave remote like the Harmony 890 which you can buy used for less than $100 or you can give the Monster combo remote a try as its being "given" away new at less than $100 these days.

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Ok. Thanks for the suggestion. It's been a while but I have taken your advice and done just that. I purchased an AVL300 and I liked it so much I purchased a second one used just because it was so cheap.

However after playing with it, a few questions still remain.

Is IR the only common denominator for all of these components:
Cablevision Scientific Atlanta Cable Boxes (one is a DVR)
Integra Process or (has ethernet control jack and RS232 jack in the back)
Epson 8350 computer
Panny Plasma
Sony Plasma
PS3
Xbox, Wii

I only bring it up because I wonder if these other control methods are actually used in a typical environment such as mine. For example, according to the menu the PS3 allows for control over HDMI. I am assuming that means that other devices can control it with some sort of standard language or basic functions. The TV's have RS232 controls in the back. Is there some kind of "central brain" type of device that can organize all these controls and have it speak to my Vera (which I also purchased as recommended).
I also have Kwikset locks and looking at garage door controllers. I guess once you start it's hard to stop. I feel like the Vera will do just fine for the zwave stuff, but I';m still having trouble with the AV solution.

For example, according to the menu the PS3 allows for control over HDMI. I am assuming that means that other devices can control it with some sort of standard language or basic functions.

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I suspect this refers to HDMI-CEC (consumer electronics control?). I find this a nice option for controlling whole A/V systems from a single remote. For example, I contol reciever and disk player (locked away in cabinet) from my TV remote (IR only).

It seems most currently-sold devices with HDMI are enabled with this capability. Sony calls it Bravia-linc. I think it is vieralinc with panasonic. Samsung, I am sure, has a name. My experience is that most of these play well together most of the time, but may not be implemented as you would like (and little way to know until you get home and try it out).

For example, if I turn on an LG BD player, the sony sound bar and sony TV will automatically turn on and configure themselves correctly. However, turning on my Panasonic player turns an attached Samsung TV on, but not the Harmon-Kardon reciever. (I can, however, turn on the HK reciever from the TV remote.)

In all cases, I have control over volume, play, pause, FF, etc... from any remote.

uksuri said:

Is there some kind of "central brain" type of device that can organize all these controls and have it speak to my Vera (which I also purchased as recommended).

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yes, it is called a PC.... :lol:
have you looked at any HA control software packages? I really like CQC, but there are many more options available... check out cocoontech.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1768, not sure how up to date it is, or even if it is possible to keep a list like that up to date...
but it is a good place to start...

For remote IR control, you may want to consider a Global Cache unit. I have a small one that I use to control my AV Reciever and DVR. I then use Net-Remote and Girder to pass the correct IR codes over my home network to the GC unit which then translates it into IR signals. I have been really happy with that solution.

Global Cache is what I use in my theater for IR control too; it interfaces with my PC over the network. For Z-Wave, I use the Leviton Vizia RF+ RS232 module to interface between my Z-Wave network and my PC.

If you really want an all in one system that will interface with everything over IR, RS232 and IP, a PC based software is the way to go.

http://www.cocoontech.com/wiki/Premise is the FREE software I use. It can be made to work with all of the items in your list and works very well. I would recommend you read the wiki and watch a few of the training videos as they are quite good and have a lot of ideas for you to consider (plus their free too ).

However, unless you have some programming experience or are very good with computers, the Harmony 890 remote is going to be the simplest solution for you; it won't offer the level of integration you're looking for or close to what Premise offers.

Krikee said:

For remote IR control, you may want to consider a Global Cache unit. I have a small one that I use to control my AV Reciever and DVR. I then use Net-Remote and Girder to pass the correct IR codes over my home network to the GC unit which then translates it into IR signals. I have been really happy with that solution.

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Well. Thanks for all of your suggestions. I know this thread is rather old now but I am still chugging along this path.

Since this thread I had purchased 3 Monster AVL300 and a lot of zwave devices. In fact I have several I haven't even installed yet.

Most of my AV equipment is in a closet in the basement and the AVL300 are programmed properly for a bunch of scenarios. In theory it should work everytime. However, I'm not sure why (maybe too far) but I need to wave my arms in the air, start walking towards my basement or sometimes it randomly just doesn't work. A lot of times when I hit an activity, it doesn't power everything up properly and I am trying to fix everything using the help feature in the remote though that never seems to help either. Long story short I think I am ready for something more advanced. It is not very reliable.

I also have the Vera2 Zwave controller which seems to work well but still there are lags at times and a couple of lights seem to never turn off no matter how much I tweak the macros.

I am seriously thinking about going the PC route. Especially since I have 4 PC's in front of me right now that I pulled from my stores. Three are basic Celeron processors but I have one Poweredge Server with what I'm guessing is an old CPU. I can't possibly need anything too beefy unless I go the HTPC/home controller route, right? I like using the PS3 for my HTPC needs thus far anyway and would most likely use any computer to just hold video files for it to stream.

So I've been looking at using Homeseer software but I'm afraid that I would most likely need to upgrade or buy new remotes since it still doesn't solve that issue. It's also going to require me to sell my Vera2 and buy one of there controllers. In the end though it looks like eventually it can control everything I want especially after adding the Global Cache units. Am I on the right path now?