Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Trying to get started Insteon or Z wave?


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#16 Digger

Digger

    Cocoonut

  • -=Gold Supporter=-
  • 3205 posts
  • Location:New York
  • Experience:average
  • Hardware:Elk M1, HomeTroller
  • Tech:UPB, Z-Wave
  • CCTV:ip, dvr
  • Phone:VoIP via ISP

Posted 10 December 2010 - 09:28 AM

Insteon also has a workaround.
They have kits with an Insteon fixture mounted module and a Insteon SwitchLinc. With it you again wire the line and neutral to the existing wires in the switch box to power the SwitchLinc and then it controls the fixture module. I tried one and in my older homes very small fixture boxes. The module didn't fit.


UPB you can do the same thing (its not a kit but they have the same fucntionality with a switch and a hardwire relay or dimmer module). Luckily for me it did fit in a standard round ceiling fixture box. Not sure if it would fit in a Ceiling Fan rated box.

#17 KenM

KenM

    Dedicated Cocooner

  • Registered
  • PipPipPip
  • 322 posts
  • Location:Southern CA

Posted 10 December 2010 - 01:41 PM

Hi,
One of the things that may have gone by (and I forgot to mention)... Is that we are all talking installed wall light/power switches and stuff. You can purchase plug-in type modules that will work with most any electrical system. The technologies that I know of, all have a version of plug-in type modules. If I were you, before modifying hard wired devices (wall switches), I would buy the some of the plug-in type control modules and experiment. Just plug one into an outlet and you are ready to go. That is a good way to get used to the way the thing might work.

Hope this helped.

ken

#18 Teken

Teken

    Cocooner

  • Registered
  • PipPip
  • 43 posts

Posted 11 December 2010 - 09:16 PM

I believe each home is different in terms of what is present and what is not that will affect the final outcome of said product. Case in point we just installed 46 Insteon devices into a 100 year old house.

The system worked like a dog . . . Five days later after going over the entire electrical system in the house. It was found to have several bad breakers, loose wiring at the box, and at the main panel. The owner also had several UPS, with a black berry charger which gave off a lot of interference.

Once all the above was identified and repaired, removed, filtered.

All was well and has been running perfect since . . . People have to be honest enough that there are times that the persons environment is the root cause for erratic behavior and poor performance.

Don't get me wrong I have been on the fence on buying any Insteon product for almost 2 years now. Now, it seems all of the major faults and problems with their switchlincs have been resolved with the micro switches, as far as I can tell hardware problems have been much reduced.

Just my 2 cents.

#19 KenM

KenM

    Dedicated Cocooner

  • Registered
  • PipPipPip
  • 322 posts
  • Location:Southern CA

Posted 12 December 2010 - 01:44 PM

I believe each home is different in terms of what is present and what is not that will affect the final outcome of said product. Case in point we just installed 46 Insteon devices into a 100 year old house.

The system worked like a dog . . . Five days later after going over the entire electrical system in the house. It was found to have several bad breakers, loose wiring at the box, and at the main panel. The owner also had several UPS, with a black berry charger which gave off a lot of interference.

Once all the above was identified and repaired, removed, filtered.

All was well and has been running perfect since . . . People have to be honest enough that there are times that the persons environment is the root cause for erratic behavior and poor performance.

Don't get me wrong I have been on the fence on buying any Insteon product for almost 2 years now. Now, it seems all of the major faults and problems with their switchlincs have been resolved with the micro switches, as far as I can tell hardware problems have been much reduced.

Just my 2 cents.



I understand and agree. My only problem is in the way INSTEON was/is advertised/marketed. If no one here can provide it, search on 'INSTEON compared'. I read that back (way back) when I was trying to decide which system to buy, and, I (have and) now raise the BS flag on them. I spent hours, days, weeks, months analyzing each and every INSTEON PLC signal with some software that I had made. My hope was to become a custom software guy and hardware installer. Long story, short, thumbs down on that.

k

Edited by KenM, 12 December 2010 - 01:45 PM.


#20 Digger

Digger

    Cocoonut

  • -=Gold Supporter=-
  • 3205 posts
  • Location:New York
  • Experience:average
  • Hardware:Elk M1, HomeTroller
  • Tech:UPB, Z-Wave
  • CCTV:ip, dvr
  • Phone:VoIP via ISP

Posted 12 December 2010 - 05:12 PM

I understand and agree. My only problem is in the way INSTEON was/is advertised/marketed. If no one here can provide it, search on 'INSTEON compared'. I read that back (way back) when I was trying to decide which system to buy, and, I (have and) now raise the BS flag on them. I spent hours, days, weeks, months analyzing each and every INSTEON PLC signal with some software that I had made. My hope was to become a custom software guy and hardware installer. Long story, short, thumbs down on that.

k


I admit that years ago a lot of the SH advertising was totally false, however, lately some products that are coming out seem to meet the original advertising (Dual Band etc) from 2006 so that may be work in progress to meet the original spec that they advertised.

The SH claims to be more reliable may never be true (personally I think its the least reliable).

For me UPB seems to be near perfect but others will say Zwave is better and I wont disagree until I try it and see what I think of it. I am also about to start dabbling with a little Zwave after the holidays as we have chosen that protocol over all others to implement at work with our products. While I would have chosen UPB if it was my choice the future may be in Zwave as there are many major manufacturers implementing it in their products (and no longer X-10, and not UPB and maybe never INsteon till they improve).

#21 Work2Play

Work2Play

    Cocoonut

  • -=Gold Supporter=-
  • 4454 posts
  • Location:Northern California
  • Experience:guru
  • Software:Elve
  • Hardware:Elk M1, RUC-01
  • Tech:X10-RF, UPB
  • Audio:AirPlay
  • Video:XBMC
  • CCTV:ip, dvr
  • Phone:3CX, Asterisk, FreePBX, Grandstream, Ooma

Posted 13 December 2010 - 01:50 AM

I would definitely agree that there's been a lot more development in ZWave - I'd assume because of the flexibility... things that don't even connect to the powerline can still do RF (deadbolts, thermostats, etc). Not to mention, it seems to be more accessible (home depot, fry's, etc) so in turn, cheaper. I also love that ZWave has wireless controller options... I was going to use the W800RF32 to bridge X10's RF with my UPB, but the lack of security in that is making me reconsider going with a ZWave to UPB bridge instead.

Beyond that, I have no experience with RF... but in my case, the extent of the work I've had to do to keep UPB working in my house is adding a phase coupler at the panel... and only because of where my CIM is - anywhere else, it didn't matter. That speaks volumes to reliability to me.

For UPB - simply-automated specifically, there's an awesome solution I discovered recently for end-of-run switches (where power is run straight to the outlet location - but instead of the hot going to the outlet, it runs over 2-wires to the switch - generally over the black, through the switch, and returning over the white - which then goes to the Hot on the outlet - a pretty common scenario)... The SimplyAutomated UPB outlet has a traveller available, so you can hook the power straight to the outlet module, then repurpose the white/black to the switch with a neutral/traveller. You lose the LED light, but the functionality is WAY better - and simpler and cheaper - than other virtual-link scenarios.

#22 Teken

Teken

    Cocooner

  • Registered
  • PipPip
  • 43 posts

Posted 13 December 2010 - 12:27 PM

I understand and agree. My only problem is in the way INSTEON was/is advertised/marketed. If no one here can provide it, search on 'INSTEON compared'. I read that back (way back) when I was trying to decide which system to buy, and, I (have and) now raise the BS flag on them. I spent hours, days, weeks, months analyzing each and every INSTEON PLC signal with some software that I had made. My hope was to become a custom software guy and hardware installer. Long story, short, thumbs down on that.

k



No argument there because I agree. :rockon: As I stated before this is why I sat on the fence for the last two years simply reviewing forums like this and others on the Internet. I wanted to see if the dual band technology and this whole mesh network thing was ever going to be fully implemented. :nutz:

I am pleased to say that the two year wait was well worth it ! :P Because there are more devices which incorporate the dual band as well as better form factors to go away from that wall wart look they have been using for the last few years. :pray:

Right now my plan is to test and bench all of these devices for the next year and create a new thread about my personal experience whether pro or con.

I will simply state my observations and the facts that surround them. :D

#23 A new user

A new user

    Cocooner

  • Registered
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts

Posted 13 December 2010 - 01:06 PM

Hey guys I tried the automated solutions website you guys provided and it is CONFUSING!!!!

Can someone link me (For starters) a good place/which components to buy to do the following:

1) I want a USB stick that will interact wirelessly with a wall switch for my lights in my office. I want to control my office lights from my computer.

From there after I get that working smoothly I would like to possibly integrate my living room light. Currently my living room light is controlled via a harbor breeze remote, and this christmas I am getting a Harmony remote. I heard Harmony remotes work with Z wave technology, so I want to be able to hit movie mode have my ceiling fan light dim, and tv/ps3/receiver all click into movie mode.

Any pointers in the right direction to accomplish this with z wave?

Thank you guys!

#24 Digger

Digger

    Cocoonut

  • -=Gold Supporter=-
  • 3205 posts
  • Location:New York
  • Experience:average
  • Hardware:Elk M1, HomeTroller
  • Tech:UPB, Z-Wave
  • CCTV:ip, dvr
  • Phone:VoIP via ISP

Posted 13 December 2010 - 02:28 PM

No argument there because I agree. :rockon: As I stated before this is why I sat on the fence for the last two years simply reviewing forums like this and others on the Internet. I wanted to see if the dual band technology and this whole mesh network thing was ever going to be fully implemented. :nutz:

I am pleased to say that the two year wait was well worth it ! :P Because there are more devices which incorporate the dual band as well as better form factors to go away from that wall wart look they have been using for the last few years. :pray:

Right now my plan is to test and bench all of these devices for the next year and create a new thread about my personal experience whether pro or con.

I will simply state my observations and the facts that surround them. :D



You are going to test these on a bench for a year? I am not sure that is what you meant. I would hope that you dont have to test them that long to be confident that they will work. Also if the dual band devices are being tested on a bench I sure hope they work over 5 or 10 foot distance. :)

If you meant you were installing them in your home for a year good luck. While I agree that the dual band is what was originally advertised and should fix many of the communication issues it will be interesting to see if they in fact do work well in a real world enviroment.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users