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#1 iostream212

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 01:05 AM

So I have a nice elaborate ELK setup but I have yet to automate my garage door. The need to incorporate the garage door into my security/automation system became priority one after my garage was broken into and all my power tools were stolen. My garage is not prewired for any system control. I need ideas of a concrete way to monitor and control the biggest door into my house. Should I just bite the bullet and find a way to hardwire it? Id that is the best way to go then I wil find a way. Or is there a wireless and reliable way to connect to the ELK and give me peace of mind the the door is secured? I have the following tools at my disposal:
ELK
Insteon network
ISY
Android phone with ElkDroid and ISY control apps

Thanks!

#2 signal15

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 02:08 AM

So I have a nice elaborate ELK setup but I have yet to automate my garage door. The need to incorporate the garage door into my security/automation system became priority one after my garage was broken into and all my power tools were stolen. My garage is not prewired for any system control. I need ideas of a concrete way to monitor and control the biggest door into my house. Should I just bite the bullet and find a way to hardwire it? Id that is the best way to go then I wil find a way. Or is there a wireless and reliable way to connect to the ELK and give me peace of mind the the door is secured? I have the following tools at my disposal:
ELK
Insteon network
ISY
Android phone with ElkDroid and ISY control apps

Thanks!


I had a couple of elk relays hardwired to my door buttons. When I just rewired my garage, I decided to take an old remote, solder a couple of wires to the button pins inside of it, and then connect those to the relays instead. I hot glued some neodymium magnets to the remote and stuck it in my panel. Works great, no more hardwires.

If I tried to get on a plane with it though, I'm pretty sure they'd evacuate the airport. :) It looks pretty sketchy.

I have magnetic garage door sensors so the elk can tell if they are open or closed, and then tasks for opening and closing the doors that can only be activated when the door is in a certain position (since the button just activates the door and doesn't care if it's up or down). I also have a timer that is set for 5 minutes when the door goes "not secure." The timer resets when the motion sensor in the garage is tripped. So if I'm working out there, then nothing happens. But if the timer expires, it announces that the garage is open. I also blink an F key on my keypad when the door is open so I can glance at it, and when pressed, it executes the task that closes all doors.

I also have a Cliste RFID system. I had it set up so when I came home, it disarmed the garage and opens the large door automatically. Except, I don't always park in the garage and I don't want to let the heat out in the winter if I don't have to. If you do the Cliste system, you need a hacked PIC chip for it so it can talk to the elk properly. PM me, and I can get you the info on who to contact to get it. The manufacturer is in China, and they made me a custom PIC to my specs and sent it to me for free.

#3 Work2Play

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 02:15 AM

signal15 - crazy setup!

For me, I ran a Cat 5 from the main panel to the garage - where I found a home for the 14" can that comes with the elk... There I run an input and an output expander..

Lots of options.... worth considering.

#4 Vector54

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 02:24 AM

I use a z-wave ACT ZRF113. Works fine.I control it through HomeSeer, but it would work the same with the Elk.

Regards,
Vector

#5 Neurorad

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 07:59 AM

I suggest 2 sensors on each garage door, one on each side - one way for a burglar to gain access is to push one side of the door in.

#6 Lou Apo

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 09:07 AM

I have my garage doors hardwired as far as the contact closure sensors. I soldered up a wireless remote to relays on the Elk so the Elk could close/open the doors (like signal15). Incidentally, I didn't use those super pricey "garage door" contactors but just the regular ones and they have worked perfectly now for 2 years and I see no reason why they won't continue to work perfectly for many more years to come.

There are quite a few wireless door contactors that you can add to your Elk system. I understand that they work well. The cost is much more than hardwired contactors but the labor is waaaaay less. You will also have to keep up with batteries and stuff.

In short, if there is a reasonable way to pull wires, I would do it. Otherwise, I would get something like the GE Caddx system and add it to your Elk.

Also, something I didn't do that I wish I had was run a second set of wires to have a contactor that indicates the door is in the open position. It would help in programming to know that the door isn't already moving. For example, if you manually close the door, then arm the system while the door is still closing, the system thinks the door is just open and "hits the button" to close it, which of course reverses the door.

Edited by Lou Apo, 10 December 2010 - 09:13 AM.


#7 wuench

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 09:28 AM

If you can I would hard wire it.

#8 cornutt

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 10:58 AM

Another way would be to set up a UPB network and use a UPB device that can close a relay. Plug it into the outlet where the opener is plugged in, and wire the relay in parallel with the door button.

My setup is hardwired. I'm in the HAI camp but I think the concepts are all the same in Elk-land. I pulled a single Cat5 to my garage when the house was built. I used that to put an expansion enclosure in the storage room that is off the garage. From there, I have magnetic contacts to each of the two garage doors, a motion, and a glass break. There are also two relays wired in parallel to each of the door buttons.

I put icons on my touch screen that indicate if each door is open or closed. You can open either door by pressing the icon; there is code that checks if the door is already open and if so, it does nothing. There is a third icon that closes both doors. When you press that one, it runs code that checks and closes any door that is open, and then it sets an 18-second timer. When the timer expires, it checks the doors again. If either one is still showing as open, it beeps the console and displays a "Garage door blocked" message. Setting the alarm to night mode also runs the close-garage-doors code, so if I forget to check them before I go to bed, they will be closed automatically when I set the alarm.

#9 gatchel

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 11:42 AM

If you can I would hard wire it.


+1

#10 signal15

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 01:11 PM

+1


I was going to pull just one wire to my garage subpanel, but then I figured since I was doing all the work of pulling it, I might as well pull a bundle of 12 wires. I punched them all down to a 110 block on either end so I have cross-connects to use in the future.

The garage door sensors were not pricey, $11 or so each from AutomatedOutlet. I mounted them at the top of the doors. If someone pries open the door on the edge and gets in, the motion will get them at night, or the 95lb dog with a bad attitude towards strangers will get them during the day. I'm in the process of installing a service door in the side of the garage, at least once I figure out the easiest way to cut through 10" of concrete and rebar. I'm putting a dog door in it. A person could certainly crawl through it, but I'm going to rely on the motion and the dog for that. My garage motion only arms on vacation and night modes. With Away, the dog is in the garage. Stay mode presents a problem though, as the dog might not be in the garage.

#11 jmark

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 01:38 PM

Lou,

I understand the principles around how a relay works etc., but being more of a visual person, would you mind sketching out a diagram of how you worked with the existing wireless remote in wiring it to the relay and explain a little bit about what relay to use etc.? For some reason, working with relays has me needing much more info than with general wiring (I guess the idea of hooking up HV to a contact that is expecting LV is one reason for that).

Any general insight into what relays to use and when would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Mark

#12 iostream212

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 02:35 PM

Thanks for the great ideas! Thinking more and more I feel the best idea would be to hardwire it. Since I am going to be pulling wire I might as well go overkill and try to think of other devices to wire up and future proof it. Any thoughts on motion detectors in garages? I am in California so my only concern would be motion detector performance during hot California summers. Any use of motion detectors in high temperature area? What other cool things to wire up? Thanks!

#13 jaysonc

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 02:58 PM

I put a non-alarm motion detector in my garage. It has been working well in the Texas heat for many years now. I am pretty sure you will be ok in California.

I mounted it on the wall beside the door looking into the garage. With a 90 degree pattern it covers the entire garage. There is a function button on my Elk that toggles announcements when it is tripped.

I use it when I am going in and out of the garage doing work. It lets me know if anyone enters my garage.

#14 Work2Play

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Posted 06 February 2011 - 12:11 AM

iostream212 - did you do this yet?

The reason I ask - if you're in the neighborhood where I think you are, your service entrance is probably on the other side of your garage wall - and if so, it's pretty likely that there are two cat5's going from the service entrance into the enclosure in your closet. Even if you are using one for a telephone, you should have a spare that you could poke through into the garage - you could then extend the M1 Data Bus over that into the garage, and open up a whole host of options; like an M1RB, M1XOVR and M1XIN (at least that's what's in mine) - and you've got sprinkler control, garage door outputs, 16 inputs you can use, etc... lots of stuff you can do then.

#15 signal15

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 03:56 PM

If you're worried about the california heat masking motion in the garage, then get a Microwave motion detector.




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