New Elk M1G Install - Speakers

jlegan

Member
My wife and I just plunked down the 5% required to get the builder going to start building our new house. I am in the process of putting together an order with Martin over at AO for the Elk system that will cover the house.

I am all squared away except for when it comes to speakers. I have arranged with the builder to get a full week in the schedule to run anything I want (in this case whole house audio, security, network, video, etc...). I was about to order a few ELK-73 and 74 when I came across the conversations about the ELK-SP12F. Since I have the luxury of putting single gangs anywhere I want and I like the idea of running 8 in parallel and still being within spec, I think I will go this route. Now, it is my understanding that the M1G has two outputs, one for sirens and one for voice announce, is that correct?

If so, what have others run the SP12F's for, voice, siren, both? Can you run 8 on each output? If not these for sirens, would you use the old school sirens mounted in the cold air returns or possibly some peizo screamers?

This to keep in mind: For example, I want a siren at or near the master bedroom, *but* I do not want announcements since my wife and I work different hours and getting a notification that the front door opened at 2AM would not be well received :).

I am really just trying to come up with the best speaker setup for a alarm setup that will span nearly 3500sqft once the basement is finished (2700sqft otherwise) while staying within spec.

Thanks,

Jim
 
My wife and I just plunked down the 5% required to get the builder going to start building our new house. I am in the process of putting together an order with Martin over at AO for the Elk system that will cover the house.

I am all squared away except for when it comes to speakers. I have arranged with the builder to get a full week in the schedule to run anything I want (in this case whole house audio, security, network, video, etc...). I was about to order a few ELK-73 and 74 when I came across the conversations about the ELK-SP12F. Since I have the luxury of putting single gangs anywhere I want and I like the idea of running 8 in parallel and still being within spec, I think I will go this route. Now, it is my understanding that the M1G has two outputs, one for sirens and one for voice announce, is that correct?

If so, what have others run the SP12F's for, voice, siren, both? Can you run 8 on each output? If not these for sirens, would you use the old school sirens mounted in the cold air returns or possibly some peizo screamers?

This to keep in mind: For example, I want a siren at or near the master bedroom, *but* I do not want announcements since my wife and I work different hours and getting a notification that the front door opened at 2AM would not be well received :).

I am really just trying to come up with the best speaker setup for a alarm setup that will span nearly 3500sqft once the basement is finished (2700sqft otherwise) while staying within spec.

Thanks,

Jim
In my opinion, one or two speakers should cover the 3500 sqft. I always recommend one be near the master bedroom, as you want to hear it for sure if there is a break-in. The M1 has a "silent mode" which can be set by a rule for the late hours. It mutes all annoucements except for the alarm sounds.

Output 1 is for the voice announcements to which you wire the speakers. Output 2 is voltage only and normally would be used for an exterior siren. If you have interoir sirens going at the same time as the speaker annoucements, it may be difficult to understand the announcements.

There are limitations for both outputs which is covered in the manual.
 
You can do some limited rules that will disable announcements. If my kid's door is closed for more than 1 minute, I disable the chime, and re-enable once the door is opened. I haven't figured out a way to mute the "Chime is Off/On" message though. Technically, you could use a relay board and run certain speakers through them to shut them off a certain times or under certain conditions.

My house is 4500 sq ft, and I put in 6 speakers so far. I will probably end up putting in more, it's nice to be able to keep the volume turned down so it's not super loud in certain places, and then quiet far away from the speakers.
 
In my opinion, one or two speakers should cover the 3500 sqft. I always recommend one be near the master bedroom, as you want to hear it for sure if there is a break-in. The M1 has a "silent mode" which can be set by a rule for the late hours. It mutes all annoucements except for the alarm sounds.

Output 1 is for the voice announcements to which you wire the speakers. Output 2 is voltage only and normally would be used for an exterior siren. If you have interoir sirens going at the same time as the speaker annoucements, it may be difficult to understand the announcements.

There are limitations for both outputs which is covered in the manual.

Output 2 can be voltage (for sirens) or use the panel's internal driver for speakers. HUGE difference and also current draw to factor in to the load calcs. It has been my experience with the M1G's (not EZ8's) that it's best to stay with one or the other rather than mix/match speakers and sirens on the same install.

We've found on our installs that installing SP12F's in combination to drop the load to 8 ohms total for output 1 to work the best compared to lower loads.
 
I was going to say ELK had that same speaker with a microphone for two-way, I had planned on ordering a few. I know they did for awhile, but I don't see them now?
 
Thanks for the replies. If I were to pick up a ELK-M1TWI, could I pick those up instead and use them for dual purpose? Essentially giving me the speakers I want + 2-way intercome/listen in capabilities in a single gang? Are the speakers loud enough?


Also, I see that that the M1TWI has 3 zones, each capable for 4 mics (12 total). If I wanted to use this in a whole house setting, can I effectively "ignore" the zones and use 6 or more in a single zone config? For example, if I were to use it in an intercom setup, and I had 6 gangs wired with these, can I set it up to broadcast on all 6 or is in limited to the other units in the same zone?


Thanks,


Jim

 
In my first home the installer put 1 speaker per floor and it was never satisfactory. It was too loud near the speaker and too soft at the farthest locations. Rarely you could make out what was being spoken.

In the last home I put 22 speakers, 1 per room, each on a volume control, all on a high quality amp (controls and amp are in the electronics closet in the basement). Now spoken messages can be heard clearly in all locations without any locations too loud or too soft.

So don't skimp.
 
To be really clear: Output 1 is for indoors; it's where voice announcements will play, and during an alarm condition, the siren will play in between voice announcements. Output 2 is selectable to either Voltage to drive a self-contained siren, or Siren which is intended to hook up to a speaker - but either way, those are intended to cover your outdoors stuff. Output 2 is also supervised, so it doesn't lend well to piezo sirens without some work to get rid of the constant hum. Personally I think Output 2 works best with a speaker - you don't have to worry about voltage draw the same way, and when in siren mode, it'll be in sync with the indoor siren - silly, but it sounds better. I use Output 3 as a relay to drive a few GE "Screamers" (piezo sirens) as well just to cause some real headaches.

I personally like the SP12's for good sound dispersion; I like having a minimum of 3 keypads in a house - one by the front door, one by the garage, and one in the Master bedroom. The SP12's can mount inside the keypad mounting plate - that's my preference, as it keeps the sound right at the keypad where you'd expect it; plus you can throw a few more SP12's around the house to add some fill so that everything is heard clearly. Also if you haven't noticed - depending on your keypads, if you go with the KP2 - the mount that it comes with is surface mount; the flush mount, ordered separately, looks much better. Either one has a knockout for the SP12 speaker - but with the surface mount you'll still need a hole in the wall for the speaker to sit in.

As stated above, you'll want to use rules to turn sounds on/off, or consider some mock zoning... for example, you can use the Elk800 amp and separate speakers and turn the amp on/off by rules to only get sounds in part of the house; or use an output and relays to disconnect/reconnect speakers. It looks like the TWSF speakers wire into the elk just like any speakers would; but the microphones wire into the TWI; so it doesn't seem to change how the speakers would be wired.

and signal15 - some new features were added in the recent firmware to assist with that issue - they specifically added a function so it won't chime when going into chime mode; and I know there's a way to disable non-alarm voices - it's all in how you structure the rules... but you're supposed to now be able to go between alert modes silently if you use the right combination and order of rules.
 
The only thing I can say is when playing with audio and listen in, plan to run the right cabling for both the speaker and mic otherwise your performance is going to suffer. I've gotten used to using a 18/2 OAS twist for speakers and either a 22/2 or 22/4, OAS twist for mic's, with the pairs shielded in a 22/4. 22 is too light for the speakers, especially if used for a siren/speaker network.

Pay attention to bonding the shields and proper shielded cable installation practices is key to the best performance from a AAV/2 way setup.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the KP2's or KP3's because of the functionality that is sacrificed compared to the original KP, but it depends on your particular install if you can go without the additional functionaliy compared to the rectangular asthetics.
 
The only thing I can say is when playing with audio and listen in, plan to run the right cabling for both the speaker and mic otherwise your performance is going to suffer. I've gotten used to using a 18/2 OAS twist for speakers and either a 22/2 or 22/4, OAS twist for mic's, with the pairs shielded in a 22/4. 22 is too light for the speakers, especially if used for a siren/speaker network.

Pay attention to bonding the shields and proper shielded cable installation practices is key to the best performance from a AAV/2 way setup.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the KP2's or KP3's because of the functionality that is sacrificed compared to the original KP, but it depends on your particular install if you can go without the additional functionaliy compared to the rectangular asthetics.

Hi just curious, what's OAS? Also can the 18/2 be used for other purposes? Is it generic 18/2?

Steve
 
According to Google it's either Online Assessment System, or maybe Organization of American States... :) I am assuming the s is shielded...

I ran 18/2 stranded for my speakers (unshielded, untwisted). It might have been overkill for the SP12's. It's just regular speaker wire. I did add a terminal strip to break out the connections. depending on the number and types of speakers there may be multiple combinations of parallel/serial that will work and you can distribute the volume to different places based on how you wire it. So you don't have an SP12 behind a speaker blaring in your face, etc. The terminal strip makes it easy to rewire.
 
I think OAS = Over All Shield, as opposed to individually shielded pairs. The same if you only have one pair.....
 
OAS, yes that is correct. If combining the mic/speaker in a single cable, I would recommend shielded twisted pairs (STP) instead of OAS.
 
Back
Top