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#16 Quixote_1

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 12:34 PM

You should pick a better distributor (I should say a "real" distributor) and get a dealer account (AO, AARTECH etc). FYI there will be a UPB version of the ISY out shortly I believe.



I know that AARTech is a sponsor of Cocoontech, but aren't they a subsidiary of Smarthome or something? I was a little non-plussed by my last interaction with them, but maybe I'll give them another try if they are not related to Smarthome. I had placed an important order and they held the entire order because they were missing a couple of Elk can grommets. When I asked about shipping a partial order (I was in a rush), I was told that I would need to pay shipping twice. It left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth, to be honest.

I will look at Worthington Distribution as well.

I heard mention of a UPB ISY in the past, but I'm afraid it may just be a myth. I could be wrong, but I was looking at threads last week about that exact same thing since I was contemplating eliminating Insteon from my repertoire. It seems that they had started in that direction, but decided that Z-Wave and UPB were too much of a load in addition to Insteon. I really hope I'm wrong, though! *fingers crossed*

#17 Digger

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 02:07 PM

I know that AARTech is a sponsor of Cocoontech, but aren't they a subsidiary of Smarthome or something? I was a little non-plussed by my last interaction with them, but maybe I'll give them another try if they are not related to Smarthome. I had placed an important order and they held the entire order because they were missing a couple of Elk can grommets. When I asked about shipping a partial order (I was in a rush), I was told that I would need to pay shipping twice. It left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth, to be honest.

I will look at Worthington Distribution as well.

I heard mention of a UPB ISY in the past, but I'm afraid it may just be a myth. I could be wrong, but I was looking at threads last week about that exact same thing since I was contemplating eliminating Insteon from my repertoire. It seems that they had started in that direction, but decided that Z-Wave and UPB were too much of a load in addition to Insteon. I really hope I'm wrong, though! *fingers crossed*


The UPB version of the ISY is not a myth it is in Beta testing and will be marketed by PCS and called the MiLightStyle. I think it may be a few more months but I may be mistaken. It seems to be almost identical to the ISY99 hardware wise and GUII is similar.

I am not aware of an affiliation between SH and AARTECH. If there is I understand your concern. AARTECH not willing to throw a couple of grommets into an envelope and ship separately would bother me to.

#18 DELInstallations

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 02:38 PM

I was never impressed with Worthington's selection or prices personally.

#19 Quixote_1

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 09:01 PM

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but I'm wondering about the UPB ISY. I find this:
http://www.universal...tle=ISY-99u_UPB

It seems that they have abandoned the idea. I found this though:
http://www.cocoontec...-mi-lightstyle.
$879 ??? HOLY S#!*


Note: I placed an order with AARTech and they were very fast about getting the order out, plus they provided me with feedback about when it was shipped, how I could track it and what the ETA would be.
Too bad I don't have a business account with them like I did with SH "Pro".

Edited by Quixote_1, 29 March 2011 - 09:07 PM.


#20 Digger

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 10:13 PM

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but I'm wondering about the UPB ISY. I find this:
http://www.universal-devices.com/mwiki/index.php?title=ISY-99u_UPB

It seems that they have abandoned the idea. I found this though:
http://www.cocoontech.com/portal/articles/news/19-upb/435-pcs-announces-mi-lightstyle.
$879 ??? HOLY S#!*


Note: I placed an order with AARTech and they were very fast about getting the order out, plus they provided me with feedback about when it was shipped, how I could track it and what the ETA would be.
Too bad I don't have a business account with them like I did with SH "Pro".


The ISY page you are referring to is from 2009 and it seems things have changed since then (obviously). I dont know if the official price has been announced yet for the MiLightStyle (cant see what you linked to).

If you are serious about using a UPB controller maybe its not to late to be a beta tester.

#21 Dan (electron)

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 07:43 AM

I know that AARTech is a sponsor of Cocoontech, but aren't they a subsidiary of Smarthome or something? I was a little non-plussed by my last interaction with them, but maybe I'll give them another try if they are not related to Smarthome. I had placed an important order and they held the entire order because they were missing a couple of Elk can grommets. When I asked about shipping a partial order (I was in a rush), I was told that I would need to pay shipping twice. It left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth, to be honest.

I will look at Worthington Distribution as well.

I heard mention of a UPB ISY in the past, but I'm afraid it may just be a myth. I could be wrong, but I was looking at threads last week about that exact same thing since I was contemplating eliminating Insteon from my repertoire. It seems that they had started in that direction, but decided that Z-Wave and UPB were too much of a load in addition to Insteon. I really hope I'm wrong, though! *fingers crossed*

AARtech is a company in Canada, and I'm not aware of any relationship between SmartHome and AARtech. That said, Sponsor or not, if you have a problem with a CTVA approved vendor, please post in the CTVA forum, so this can be addressed, this is what the program is all about ;) I can see why there would be a separate shipping charge for splitting the order tho, especially for smaller companies.

The ISY page you are referring to is from 2009 and it seems things have changed since then (obviously). I dont know if the official price has been announced yet for the MiLightStyle (cant see what you linked to).

If you are serious about using a UPB controller maybe its not to late to be a beta tester.

The pricing in the 2nd link is official. But I'm not sure if this announcement means that Universal Devices is giving up on UPB support (i.e., is it an exclusive thing?).

#22 etc6849

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 10:30 AM

DEL, who do you recommend?

I was never impressed with Worthington's selection or prices personally.



#23 AnthonyZ

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 06:52 PM

What about commercial? Does anybody know automation in that industry? Such as schools, hotels universities etc..

To reply to etc6849 in regards to whether he thinks this is a good industry: My personal opinion is that home automation is on the verge of explosion. It is supposed to grow 50x in the next 5 years. There have been studies to show that in the near future automation could save hotels 30-40% energy savings. That is an insane number and any hotels not to jump on board is going to hurt them. Automation is spreading through public schools and universities. surveillance is really growing fast and automation will follow. Personally I think this industry is going to be huge in the next ten years. There will be lots of money to be made.

You are confusing two VERY different animals. Particularly when you consider hotels, schools and universities. Take for example a university project. First, any given building may have as many as ten thousand I/O points, controlled in real time via advanced PID loops (far too advanced for any of the typical controllers from HAI, ELK, Crestron*, AMX or any other resi vendor you may be aware of)that span many controllers that could be separated by thousands of feet all controlling critical equipment (air handlers that will blow all the windows out of a 200,00 sq.ft. building). Then multiply that by all of the buildings under the facilities management for that campus. Then add all the additional buildings on satellite campuses. Then network them all, build a graphical interface, generate alarms and offer 24/7/365 service/support. Umm, not viable.

Look, you're right building automation is growing at a rate that is higher than resi (which has great potential for growth if not so explosive) but, the market is not something that one just decides to do. A small company will have a minimum of half a dozen licensed engineers, a dozen or more commissioning techs, as many as two dozen install techs, support staff and more. A one man show isn't gonna get so much as a single project.

Instead, focus on light commercial and resi. Know what the hell you're doing. Don't promise anything that you aren't 100% sure of and then deliver.

*Crestron is flirting with the BAS market and I think they can make a play on front end integration. Unless they retool, though, they will have their a$$es handed to them if they attempt BAS on a full scale. Real players like Siemens, Andover/Schneider and Johnson Controls will eat their lunch and laugh all the way to the bank. The next two years could be interesting on that front.

#24 MarkGilmore

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 07:42 AM

hi newbie,
i'm too lazy at the moment to compose a proper response.
but i'll be glad to offer my advice if u care to call me tomorrow.
i've been designing/marketing HA software ("ECS") since 1989.
regards,
mark
Omnipotence Software
423-745-0026

#25 DELInstallations

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Posted 03 April 2011 - 08:24 AM

You are confusing two VERY different animals. Particularly when you consider hotels, schools and universities. Take for example a university project. First, any given building may have as many as ten thousand I/O points, controlled in real time via advanced PID loops (far too advanced for any of the typical controllers from HAI, ELK, Crestron*, AMX or any other resi vendor you may be aware of)that span many controllers that could be separated by thousands of feet all controlling critical equipment (air handlers that will blow all the windows out of a 200,00 sq.ft. building). Then multiply that by all of the buildings under the facilities management for that campus. Then add all the additional buildings on satellite campuses. Then network them all, build a graphical interface, generate alarms and offer 24/7/365 service/support. Umm, not viable.

Look, you're right building automation is growing at a rate that is higher than resi (which has great potential for growth if not so explosive) but, the market is not something that one just decides to do. A small company will have a minimum of half a dozen licensed engineers, a dozen or more commissioning techs, as many as two dozen install techs, support staff and more. A one man show isn't gonna get so much as a single project.

Instead, focus on light commercial and resi. Know what the hell you're doing. Don't promise anything that you aren't 100% sure of and then deliver.

*Crestron is flirting with the BAS market and I think they can make a play on front end integration. Unless they retool, though, they will have their a$$es handed to them if they attempt BAS on a full scale. Real players like Siemens, Andover/Schneider and Johnson Controls will eat their lunch and laugh all the way to the bank. The next two years could be interesting on that front.


Exactly. You'll never see a BAS like a Metasys or it's counterparts. Often, with these systems, you're looking at much more than a single platform, you're looking at something that is communicating via BACNET or another protocol, be it Eschelon with NIONS or Modbus, then integration from that point. From the security and life safety standpoint, the hardware alone for a head end is well into the 5 digits, and that's just for the PC server and basic hardware, no gateways or related parts, let alone the independent systems to start to be tied in. The one thing, however, is depending on the platform and protocol, some of these panels could come on line, however the high level of integration and control that these sorts of systems have would leave the larger platforms like the larger Vista panels and linking, DMP, and Bosch the only ones that would be connected.

I work for Honeywell/NIS and supported the commercially available version and JCI/Andover's life safety integration and automation product lines. Very different and larger beast.




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