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PIM no signal (SPIM-01 UPB GEN II)


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#1 seth69

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 02:52 PM

Hello everyone,

The first I need to say is Im new in this world of automation and my english is not very good.

Now my problem;

I have a PIM (SPIM-01 UPB GEN II) and I havent any signal between it and the switch (PCS RWS) they're in the same panel. In Upstart I see a noise medium, but the signal is missing (no number). I tried to connect with the swicht and I can't. The switch is like a 50 m from the PIM.

Thank you

#2 Desert_AIP

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 06:16 PM

What country are you in and what electrical system do you have?

Here in the U.S. we have split phase 110VAC.
It is really a 220VAC line split in two.
So half of a house is on one leg and the other half on the other leg.
Which is why we need a phase coupler to make sure the UPB signals can get from one leg to another.

Noise medium is not a great sign, you may have too much noise to see the signals.

I would try to take the switch out and wire it to a plug in cord.
Cap off all the unused wirs and the output wire. You only need the black, white and ground wires connected to test.
Then plug both the cord and PIM into the same power strip.
Thsi way you know they are on the same electrical path.
If it works like this, then you knwo you have a noise or transmission problem.
If it doesn;t work, then you know one of the modules (switch or PIM) are bad.

#3 seth69

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 12:53 AM

Hello Desert!

Thank you for the response. I live in Barbados, we have 110v. I using 2 amplifier connected near to the PIM, I think the noise for that but i dont have more option, Im going to try to speak with the electrician and do that test. Tomorrow I tell you.

Thanks

#4 Desert_AIP

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 02:18 AM

By amplifier, are you talking about audio(home stereo) amplifiers?
That may be your noise source.
Also, I think you have two legs of 110V like we do here in the U.S., which means you need a phase coupler.
I am betting the switch and the PIM are on separate phases.

Edited by Desert_AIP, 19 December 2011 - 12:55 PM.


#5 pete_c

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 06:46 AM

I'm guessing too that you will see something with the switch on the same phase.

Here I added a UPB repeater in addition to the coupler. Not sure though what repeater would do with noise on the wire.

#6 seth69

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 12:00 AM

Hello,

I tried to connect in the same phase, but still not working. Tomorrow Im going to try to make a little circuit to try it and Ill tell you.

Thank you.!

#7 nmconcept

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 09:26 PM

I have odd situation with half of my dimmers. First group of dimmers i was able to program with upstart with ease. My controller and PIM is in structured wiring box and it is located next to electrical panels in laundry room. So everything is close. Upstart wasn't able to show me any signal or noise in my powerline, but dozen of dimmers that i put in program mode was discovered one by one. But the rest of dimmers that was located all over the apartment i wasn't able to discover. Then i started to check every receptacle in the apartament. One receptacle gave me ability to program the rest dimmers, but i can not see other dimmers when PIM is in that receptacle. Noise level in that receptacle is severe and signal level is excellent. I have phase coupler installed inside one of electrical panels. I connected one end of phase coupler to the breaker that goes to that receptacle and other to another breaker and still no luck. I can see half of my dimmers from receptacle located in structured wiring box and other half from master bathroom.
Don't know what to do... I was reading this forum for a week now. So many good thoughs here, but nothing is works for me. One day i even disconnected the wire, that comes to breaker from master bathroom, and connected it to another breaker with different phase and wasn' t able to find any dimmer from second group (not from laundry room nor from master bathroom) while first group was discoverable all the time from almost any receptacle.

Edited by nmconcept, 20 December 2011 - 09:30 PM.


#8 seth69

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 12:51 PM

Sorry guys,

I don't test already the "close circuit" maybe this weekend. Ill tell you about the progress.

Thank you!

#9 Desert_AIP

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 01:40 PM

@ nmconcept.

Sounds like you have something noisy on the second phase of your electrical system.
CFL bulbs or motors (fans, etc.) are the usual culprits.
The best way to isolate the noise source is to monitor the noise level in UPStart and then systematically disconnect things until the noise disappears.
Then you'll need to add a noise filter to that piece of equipment or replace the noisy bulb.

#10 nmconcept

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 05:04 PM

Today i found another outlet with good signal for second half of dimmers. So now i have two receptacles for "second zone". And it is located in laundry room on opposite wall. Here is the printscreens from upstart. First shows condition of UPB network from receptacle on opposite wall in laundry room, second image from PIM connected in same laundry room but in structured wiring box where is my omnipro located.

Attached Files


Edited by nmconcept, 22 December 2011 - 01:31 AM.


#11 nmconcept

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 05:07 PM

And another problem is when i try to configure any dimmer via pcaccess, it can't find any dimmer in setup mode.

#12 Desert_AIP

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 05:36 PM

Do you have the Omni properly grounded?
Looks like something weird inside the can.


Also
Have you mapped out your switches by phase?
On the individual switch pages it will show which phase each resides on.

#13 nmconcept

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 01:29 AM

Do you have the Omni properly grounded?
Looks like something weird inside the can.

Yes, it is grounded to metal structured wiring box while it is grounded to studs and receptacle. And i don't think that this may cause any troubles with communication. Omni board communicates trough PIM via serial port and PIM is electrically isolated from controller, i mean it has optoelectronic couples inside to isolate powerline from sensitive controller.
I don't know what else to do to make it work. I'll check ground one more time for any case.

Also
Have you mapped out your switches by phase?
On the individual switch pages it will show which phase each resides on.

No i didn't. I never thought about this.
In upstart NetCommTest file i noticed column 'Phase' and it is shows 'S'. Will check it tomorrow morning.
Thank you for advice, Desert_AIP

Edited by nmconcept, 22 December 2011 - 01:29 AM.


#14 Work2Play

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 01:40 AM

nmconcept - that looks very distinctly like an issue bridging phases. You need the right phase coupler between the phases in your house.

#15 nmconcept

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 07:39 PM

Yep. I spent whole day to find the reason why i have two separate zones. Now I think phase coupler is dead (but led is still lit). And still i have problem with configuring dimmers via pcaccess. I can not get feedback when i turn on, off or dim any dimmers. Only when some security zone is tripped or automation block is working, only then i can see the status of dimmers. But when i turn off any dimmer that is ON, i still see that it is still ON, no matter if i turn it off completely or just dim it.




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