As I'm coming closer to using up the available 1A on my M1G panel, I'd like to see what the system is actually drawing during alarm mode. What is the best way to do this? Is it at all possible to view it from the keypad? As soon as I arm the system, even from a keyfob, the keypad exits out and putting in a code to access the menu will disarm.
How to View Current Draw During M1 Alarm?
- Thread starter video321
- Start date
Yes. Been there, done that.
Right now I pull about .400A on standby, but I also have a strobe, 1 exterior speaker on out2 and a relay triggering a piezo screamer but want to tie in (2) more screamers at .175A/ea.
So, with the rating of .250A for the strobe and .175 per screamer in away alarm, I'd be over (that I know.) However, what if I connected just 2 screamers for now? Am I good...it's close. Without knowing what exactly the panel starts pulling to power the interior and exterior speakers I'm kind of in the dark here.
I don't want to have to tie in my meter for this....
Right now I pull about .400A on standby, but I also have a strobe, 1 exterior speaker on out2 and a relay triggering a piezo screamer but want to tie in (2) more screamers at .175A/ea.
So, with the rating of .250A for the strobe and .175 per screamer in away alarm, I'd be over (that I know.) However, what if I connected just 2 screamers for now? Am I good...it's close. Without knowing what exactly the panel starts pulling to power the interior and exterior speakers I'm kind of in the dark here.
I don't want to have to tie in my meter for this....
You're worrying about the wrong item(s).
The panel has it's operating current, which doesn't change. The only item that changes is the peripherals and any other powered device attached to the panel. The worst offenders are XOVR's, low standby but high draw for the outputs.
Your figuring on the loads incorrectly, standby is of no consequence, and in alarm condition, the panel will draw briefly off the battery to make up the current load, affecting backup battery time.
If you're running the system that close to the edge, you're asking for problems, since your alarm current would probably peak above 600mA easily.
Spend $30 for a supply, xfrmr and battery, it can be a dumb supply, and loadshed your piezos and strobe, since if those go down, it won't affect the rest of the system, and in actuality it will increase your no-ac standby time as a nice side effect.
The panel has it's operating current, which doesn't change. The only item that changes is the peripherals and any other powered device attached to the panel. The worst offenders are XOVR's, low standby but high draw for the outputs.
Your figuring on the loads incorrectly, standby is of no consequence, and in alarm condition, the panel will draw briefly off the battery to make up the current load, affecting backup battery time.
If you're running the system that close to the edge, you're asking for problems, since your alarm current would probably peak above 600mA easily.
Spend $30 for a supply, xfrmr and battery, it can be a dumb supply, and loadshed your piezos and strobe, since if those go down, it won't affect the rest of the system, and in actuality it will increase your no-ac standby time as a nice side effect.
apostolakisl
Senior Member
If you are concerned about the real amp draw vs the amp draw in the spec sheet then just measure.
Take your multimeter and set it to measure amps (make sure it to use a sufficiently high setting on the amps), unhook the hot side of your main aux power jack on the Elk. Clip your multimeter + to the Elk + and clip your multimeter - to the hot wire going to the peripherls. Turn it all on and you will see the amp draw on your multimeter. Put it into alarm or whatever state you want to test.
Do the same for the other power drains like the smokes and siren.
Add it all up, and you have your real number (not including internal Elk consumption).
Take your multimeter and set it to measure amps (make sure it to use a sufficiently high setting on the amps), unhook the hot side of your main aux power jack on the Elk. Clip your multimeter + to the Elk + and clip your multimeter - to the hot wire going to the peripherls. Turn it all on and you will see the amp draw on your multimeter. Put it into alarm or whatever state you want to test.
Do the same for the other power drains like the smokes and siren.
Add it all up, and you have your real number (not including internal Elk consumption).
Really if I wanted to I could just go to my closet and pull out a regulated 12V wall wart, but I wanted to see where I stood first.
Are you sure the panel doesn't draw more current when powering speakers (not sirens) on output 1&2 during an alarm?
Actual numbers aren't the real concern, it's peak numbers and having an appropriate cushion above that, which is what everyone seems to be missing. Posted values, barring a change on the M1's part are the beginning.
When sizing a panel and considering a need for an aux supply/battery or not, the trade recognized standard, as well as UL (for certificated installations) is to figure on the draw for every device in alarm/active condition. UL is more stringent, requiring a buffer value below the maximum current draw the panel is capable of.
It's like saying I have X-speed rated tires on my '79 Impala. Just because they're rated to go X MPH, doesn't mean it's a good idea to drive that car X+1 MPH.
We're not talking adding a simple wall wart, but installing a $30 power supply/xfrmr and 4AH battery here, which isn't unreasonable compared to overdrawing the panel's supply, possibly hitting the PTC limit and shutting the panel down, which is a worst case scenario, best case is the additional current is drawn off the battery, however I'd still be concerned about the PTC loading.
When sizing a panel and considering a need for an aux supply/battery or not, the trade recognized standard, as well as UL (for certificated installations) is to figure on the draw for every device in alarm/active condition. UL is more stringent, requiring a buffer value below the maximum current draw the panel is capable of.
It's like saying I have X-speed rated tires on my '79 Impala. Just because they're rated to go X MPH, doesn't mean it's a good idea to drive that car X+1 MPH.
We're not talking adding a simple wall wart, but installing a $30 power supply/xfrmr and 4AH battery here, which isn't unreasonable compared to overdrawing the panel's supply, possibly hitting the PTC limit and shutting the panel down, which is a worst case scenario, best case is the additional current is drawn off the battery, however I'd still be concerned about the PTC loading.
Del-
I'm not disagreeing with you one bit. However I did want to see it in "real" numbers soI can learn what the panel is actually doing. I also understand the difference between using a secondary PS vs. a wall wart (I even have ones rated at 13.8 on hand) but like you said if the strobe went down...who cares?!?
I'm not disagreeing with you one bit. However I did want to see it in "real" numbers soI can learn what the panel is actually doing. I also understand the difference between using a secondary PS vs. a wall wart (I even have ones rated at 13.8 on hand) but like you said if the strobe went down...who cares?!?
One more thing....
I was looking at the P112K which includes the 624 PS. The specs don't list that as not allowing the battery to deep discharge. Do ayone know if it does or not? I did see Elk has a switch that could be wired in that has that feature.
Any recommendations for a secondary PS? Altronix?
I was looking at the P112K which includes the 624 PS. The specs don't list that as not allowing the battery to deep discharge. Do ayone know if it does or not? I did see Elk has a switch that could be wired in that has that feature.
Any recommendations for a secondary PS? Altronix?
Yikes!!!
So, I figured out a way to get my system in alarm mode while being able to view the keypad voltage reading and I hit 1.5A with the sirens running! When output 1 was in voice mode it dropped to ~1A but when it switched to siren it added that extra .5A.
So to sum up:
.4A on standby
alarm on kicks on a strobe that I measured separately at ~150mA (rated at 250mA), an exterior speaker, and a single screamer @ 175mA (didn't measure separately yet.) So that siren driver really does take a lot of juice.
Looking on Elk's site I guess that makes sense as their addon siren driver is rated at 700mA-1.2A, depending on the setting.
So, I figured out a way to get my system in alarm mode while being able to view the keypad voltage reading and I hit 1.5A with the sirens running! When output 1 was in voice mode it dropped to ~1A but when it switched to siren it added that extra .5A.
So to sum up:
.4A on standby
alarm on kicks on a strobe that I measured separately at ~150mA (rated at 250mA), an exterior speaker, and a single screamer @ 175mA (didn't measure separately yet.) So that siren driver really does take a lot of juice.
Looking on Elk's site I guess that makes sense as their addon siren driver is rated at 700mA-1.2A, depending on the setting.
michelkenny
Active Member
Do you mind sharing how you did this?
You need at least 2 keypads - one to have viewing the voltage and the other to trigger the police panic (F2 by default, IIRC). I also added my screamers to go off when I pressed F2 as well. So...trigger the panic on one keypad then go to the 2nd to view to voltage being pulled.
apostolakisl
Senior Member
So how are you turning a voltage reading into amps? If the voltage in the system drops, you would need to know the power supplies voltage/current yield curve. And even that would be wrong since voltage is still being affected by the Elk's rectifier and voltage regulator.
EDIT: I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier, but the easiest way to measure real amp draw is to unattach the battery and put your amp meter in between the battery and Elk. Then unplug Elk's wallwart. Measure your current at standby and then alarm the system and check the amps then.