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More UPB/four way problems


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#1 sc2k2

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 02:00 AM

You may remember my recent issue here:

http://cocoontech.co...bluegreen-leds/

Which I was able to get resolved. Anyway, on the middle floor we decided to swap out the switch next to the (then working) us 240. I put in a USR in the two gang box, and another 240 on the other end of the three way switch.

I'm getting mixed results with the USR and 240 config - probably because the 240 has an 8 button plate and is configured with button one as a super multi button. But that isn't the real issue.

For some reason, the three 240s I have in a four way switch (from the previous thread linked above) are no longer working, as in they are no longer turning on the lights.

1) They all have power.
2) The LEDs change from blue to green.
3) I hear the quiet UPB sounds when I press them.
4) I can modify their configuration in UPStart - though I am finding more signal/noise issues in other areas of the house (though I now have 20 UPB devices setup, could be the issue).

Have any of you seen this before? The two gang box on the middle floor that we worked on looks fine, and the lights/neutrals all appear to be on completely different circuits. The bottom floor/garage switch which has the load attached still has blue/green LEDs but it just isn't turning anything on.

Any help would be appreciated. I think I should have followed some of the sage advice here and stuck with 1140s.

#2 Desert_AIP

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 04:29 AM

(Added this part after I reread your OP)
Are you absolutely sure you installed the USR correctly?
Did you interrupt the 4 way wiring at all?
My bet is you interrupted either power coming into that 4 way circuit or the traveller.
The middle and top floor 240s of the 4 way circuit should just be hooked to power with no load.
But it's possible because of the 4 way wiring that the bottom floor switch gets it's power (black) from one of the upper switches. Or sends the power out via the traveller (red) before it gets to the load.
If you interrupted that pathway, you may have created the problem when you installed the USR.


Where is the 240 on the other end of the USR?
Is it one of the 240s you had in the 4 way circuit, or is it a new install?
I am suspecting that it is a new 240 and is adjacent to the bottom floor garage 240 in the 4 way setup.

What do you mean by "mixed results" for the USR-240?

Does the 240 in the 4 way setup with the load attached operate the load from itself (the rocker on the front)?
If no, you need to trouble shoot that switch first.
If this 240 doesn't work, check in UPStart that you still have the transmit and receive links programmed properly.

If the links are programmed properly, I suspect somehow the brown load wire got mis/disconnected.

Edited by Desert_AIP, 25 February 2012 - 06:06 AM.


#3 standon

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:15 PM

I think Desert_AIP is correct. In my installations, the Black wire on the USR is not really for line power. If you connect it to line, it will act like its working with buzzing and color changes - but it's really just doing its function while its powered - not controlling anything. I forget exactly how my are installed, but the black wire on USR is connected to the traveller (red) from the master switch, white tied to all neutrals. In my multi-way configurations I only used one 240 and the rest USRs. Installations vary depending on where the light is on the installation, so this may only be mine.

Unfortunately, USRs in my installation are usually off or a dimmer green while the light is off. Only when the light is on will it be the full green.

Also, when you switch connections around, I found I had to remove the switch from Upstart then have the program find the switch again.

#4 Desert_AIP

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 01:26 PM

With the newer USRs the black wire powers the LED in the "OFF" mode and the brown wire powers the LED in the "ON" mode.
The brown/white wire is the comms line to the US240.

#5 aceman

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 03:08 PM

Easier way (though pricier) is to use all 4 switches using master switches and link in upstart, so 3 of the 4 will have nothing connected to load.

Just another way to skin the cat!

Aceman

#6 sc2k2

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 04:08 PM

First of all, thanks to all of your help, we have been able to get it fixed. Turns out there was a FOURTH switch that I didn't know about - it was turned off, and that interrupted the load as you suggested. We removed it and capped the black wires together along with the white wires so I'll be able to add another 240 or 1140 when I finally get more - and in the meantime, it's just passing the load on.

The USR is an old one - not a USR-40, so I think it's actually designed to be off or green. It actually doesn't have a black wire, if I recall, just brown, white, red/white, and brown/white.

#7 sc2k2

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 04:10 PM

Easier way (though pricier) is to use all 4 switches using master switches and link in upstart, so 3 of the 4 will have nothing connected to load.

Just another way to skin the cat!

Aceman


Yeah, that's what I ended up doing where the USR was previously and with the 240s on the outside lights. I think this USR will ultimately get scrapped as I'm sort of OCD about all of the LEDs matching.

#8 Desert_AIP

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 04:53 PM

Glad you figured it out.
Those multi way switches can have wires everywhere, sometimes you have no idea WHERE they actually tapped the load off of the whole chain.

I have one of the old USRs too. I had it as part of a 3- way stairway circuit when I first started playing with UPB.
I never like the LED thing either. Plus I use the green off - blue on convention and the USR just didn't match.
Once I started playing with using 240s as link transmitters I swapped it out. I don't have any installed right now.

I think they are probably more useful when paired with one of the UPB outlets. But the LED thing still is a bit aggravating.

#9 Work2Play

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 06:22 PM

Your guys' OCD is costly! Just over LED's?

I guess it helps that I use blue for on and light-blue for off, and with the newest USR's you can have blue or green and depending on how you wire it all up, the LED can dim/brighten with the load, or get steady-on LED's of either color. Most of mine are always-on blue, so they don't look much different than any other switch; ones where there was no constant hot, I wired the LED in with the load, so they're on if the load is on.

I personally like that the USR is one with the switch, outlet, or inline module... meaning pressing the paddle 5 times on the USR is the same as doing it on the master device.

As for the OP, you really should see what you can do about the noise issues if you want a reliable installation. It seems like the more UPB devices you add, the more the signal seems to drop across the board - or at least that's been my experience.

#10 Desert_AIP

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 03:53 AM

I didn't even consider simply swapping the LED wires to reverse the color scheme. Duh! :blink:

As for noise, I'm sure every install is different.
I've got more than 60 units installed and the wired in coupler in the breaker panel.
The only noise issues I've had were from a cheap CFL bulb and a cheap LED bulb.
I removed those and have great SNR.

Edited by Desert_AIP, 26 February 2012 - 03:54 AM.





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