Connecting the 4219 to Vista 20p

Hello again,

I plan on getting a Vista 20P, and expand the zone quantity via a 4219 module.

My questions is this: Does this bring the total number of zones to 16, or 15? I'm concerned, because the 20p manual states:
"For zones 09-16, set module to Device Address 07".


Does "Address 07" = "zone 07", or is this separate? I'm guessing that it's referring to device addresses like in keypads.... since the expander module connects to the keypad terminals to begin with, right?

I need to have 16 zones. If I am stuck with 15 zones, I'm up the creek on this one Thank you!

Address - 07 is for the bus modules, it is not a zone, so, yes, with a 20P and a 4219 you will have 16 zones.

You will also need to change zone 1 on the 20P from fire to EOL, otherwise its only 7 zones plus the 4219. Also. i think you can zone double the 20P, i know you can on the 21ip and they are the same board.

You can zone double, however you will be limited to 15 zones and zone doubling introduces a whole new set of rules and also potential issues, which honestly, for the price of a 4219, I would not recommend someone to consider zone doubling in good conscience.

^ What Dell said + 1

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

sandjunky said:

You will also need to change zone 1 on the 20P from fire to EOL, otherwise its only 7 zones plus the 4219. Also. i think you can zone double the 20P, i know you can on the 21ip and they are the same board.

Click to expand...

Ok. I'm not 100% sure whether or not there's any EOLs on any of my sensors, but I guess I'll find out when I install magnets and measure resistance once closed.

The panel will come with a set of EOL resistors that I can just install in-box right? (I have read about EOLs. I know they're kinda useless in-box as you're not supervising the line but will at least let the circuit function if EOLs are required.)

If you're going to put them in the panel, might as well just change the ZT's to NC (not for fire alarm though). I can't remember off the top of my head if you can eliminate them on the 4219's, but I want to say no.

DELInstallations said:

If you're going to put them in the panel, might as well just change the ZT's to NC (not for fire alarm though). I can't remember off the top of my head if you can eliminate them on the 4219's, but I want to say no.

Click to expand...

I plan on installing wireless RF smokes anyway. My home has HV smokes which are not designed for panel interconnect... well you can do it but it is not to code..

So with that I just need to worry about zone 1 since it's EOLR only, the rest can be configured either/or.

Thank you! You are very helpful, and thanks for fielding my newbie questions here. It's one of those things where knowing is half the battle - more like 80% of the battle.

if you are going to set your zones up as burg, you will need EOL installed. on the 20p, HW with contact need a 2k and the 4219 needs 1k (green resistors in the box). you can volt the zones and should see 4.9-5.0V for HW on the 20P and 2.5 on the 4219.

DELInstallations said:

If you're going to put them in the panel, might as well just change the ZT's to NC (not for fire alarm though). I can't remember off the top of my head if you can eliminate them on the 4219's, but I want to say no.

Click to expand...

will these setting be the same, 03 01 00 10 0 03 01 02 10? the first will have EOL and the other will be NC, but the are treated the same on the panel? If i am correct, the ELOR is just for finding/checking faults inline. but i do know for sure that the 4219 do need EOL so the panel knows what is connected. I wish this post was started two months back so would not have had to add an extra step in my build out. live an learn i guess.

I know that the EOL is supposed to be just that and not a ITBR (In The Box resistor). At times it is not cost effective or practical to go and install EOL's like when the contacts are painted and removal will damage them. It does not however mean a resistor is worthless in the cabinet. If the resistor is installed on the common side (-) of the loop it will at least monitor the circuit for a ground. If it is absent or if the resistor is installed on the positive side any ground will complete the circuit. This is the reason that when you look at the panel door diagram it will always show all normally closed contacts on the positive side of the loop. Another plus to using the EOL at the end of the circuit and "looping" your two conductor, two wires at each contact with the reds on the contact terminals and the blacks connected to each other is service. Lets say you have 20 windows on a zone ,yes I remember single zone panels, you can short the panel side and go to window 10. At that point you can meter both ways, if you "see" the EOL the problem is closer to the panel or if you see the short but not the EOL it is closer to the end of the circuit. You repeat this at the halfway point of the bad section until the bad connection is found. I always called it called "divide and conquer" and the best part is you don't need to go to the attic or crawl space unless the wire is damaged. By then you know exactly where to look. Of course with fire or NO panic zones the EOL resistor is a must at the end of the line, no exceptions.

sandjunky said:

if you are going to set your zones up as burg, you will need EOL installed. on the 20p, HW with contact need a 2k and the 4219 needs 1k (green resistors in the box). you can volt the zones and should see 4.9-5.0V for HW on the 20P and 2.5 on the 4219.

Click to expand...

You can eliminate EOLR's and change the circuits to NC for the panel zones. I'm 95% sure the 4219 needs the EOLR's irregardless (no programming changes allowed to circuit.

dang it, would have been cleaner without the EOL, but i works now so i am not changing anything.

gizzmo said:

 If the resistor is installed on the common side (-) of the loop it will at least monitor the circuit for a ground. If it is absent or if the resistor is installed on the positive side any ground will complete the circuit. This is the reason that when you look at the panel door diagram it will always show all normally closed contacts on the positive side of the loop.

Click to expand...

Apologies for bringing up an old thread but I have a question that is in line with this topic.
 
I have been advised to wiring the resistors on the 4219 on the positive (+) terminal instead of the common (-).  Why?  Due to the jelly bean connectors not crimping down across three leads (2 neg wires + resistor) accurately and potentially creating a problem?