Which UPB switch do you recommend?

Time for me to revisit this question again as my new home construction is on the horizon. Last time I looked at which UPB switch i wanted (last sept.) I decided on the simply automated US11-40-W switch. Seemed to have good reviews, good pricing, and easily available. Since then the HAI Gen3 series have come out (maybe others) and I need to re-evaluate this choice.

So which switches are people using and why? Any good reviews of the HAI Gen3's?

My needs are:
1) I will be using an HAI OP II panel to control my lights. I want tight integration (status, etc.).
2) My needs are simple; just on/off/dim/bright, no scenes, single switch, anything over 500W is sufficient.
3) Most lights will be incandescent, but I will move toward LED in the near future. I know about problems with dimming and switching power supplies for LEDs. What I'm not sure about is how some of these switches can handle these kinds of loads.
4) New construction 3000 square foot 2 story house with neutral wires. I'll probably use about 25 or 30 switches.
5) I will use a coupler or repeater in the breaker box. I know the SA products should only use the coupler and not a repeater.

Thanks.

For me it comes down to price. Where I buy my gear, SA switches are half the cost of HAI or PCS switches, makes a big difference when you need 30 switches!

i'm basically the same, i have 10 pulseworks switches, and about 70 simply automated switches now. I needed 2 phase couplers but it works pretty good now.

the sa switches are really lots less than the competition and i can't see a higher failure rate in terms of controlling the switches.

Yeah, HAI gen3 switches are more than 3x the cost of the SA switches.

What is the story on 2 phase couplers? Do you have 2 breaker boxes?

for anyone that's read the article in my signature, it's clear that SA is the company I went with... the benefits of Gen I/II/III are debatable... I really wish I had the means to tear into each one to provide first hand experience.

With SA, it's not uncommon to use multiple phase couplers. It seems that they help jump the signal, but it's not 100% - and more than one helps propagate the signal. I have to run two of them for my system to work correctly in my 4000 sq ft house. Currently one is in the panel and one is at the dryer - but soon I'm going to just remove the breaker-box one and wire it so I can have 3 of the wire-in ones in parallel just next to the panel - that'll let me recover some space in the panel, remove the dryer kludge, and fix the slight signal fade in my home office.

SA because of pricing here too. I only need one phase coupler for my 2000 sq ft ranch.

kwilcox said:

SA because of pricing here too. I only need one phase coupler for my 2000 sq ft ranch.

Click to expand...

Ditto, SA, price and 1 phase coupler, for 2700 sq ft 2 story + walk out basement. Wired mine in at the panel in a separate gang box attached to bottom.

I chose Simply Automated because of the customization features and pricepoint.
I've had great experience with SA customer support on the two DOA devices (out of 60+) I had.
I probably have at least one of each of their products.

I only needed a single coupler with my initial install. I had no comm issues.
But after replacing most of my bulbs with LED, I find their is increased signal attenuation on the opposite leg.
There is no noise noted in UPStart, so I suspect increased capacitance probably fromt eh LED circuitry.
I'm installing an additional wired in coupler (thanks Work2Play) to boost the signal on the opposite leg.

Great comments everyone, thanks. Work2Play I did read your excellent writeup some time ago and it was what pointed me in the SA direction.

Decision made, I'm sticking with the SA US11-40-W.

We just finished trouble shooting a 5000²ft with 105 HLC devices (HAI devices) and the customer has been living a nightmare with his system for over a year now. System was acting erracticaly, lights were turning on by themselves, scene switches were flashing and ½ the time, the system was not responding to commands from the omni or scene switches.

The house had a phase coupler that have been replaced by us, the original contractor have replace more than 70% of the HLC devices.

This house has a geothermal system with many well pumps, drinking water also come from a well pump, 3 hvac units, 3 pool pumps, hot tub pumps and a generator set. Everything to make this UPB system a nightmare. Noise level are really high and it is difficult or almost impossible to communicate with some devices.

We completely change all unit ID and adress, we did reprogram all the device but most important, is that we have removed the phase coupler (and by the way, HAI recommands to install only one of these in every installation) and instead install a split phase repeater in one of the three sub panels.

That little piece of equipment is a must for all your UPB install. Forget about the phase couplers and shed a little extra money for a split phase repeater.

The problematic devices are finally accessible both ways, even with high to severe noise level in upstart. The only downside at this moment is that it sometime requires some retries to get the feedback.

I understand that you do not have such a large system in your description but I would really suggest you to install a split phase repeater in yours. It will make your system react way better and in our case, it solve issues that phase coupler could not handle.

Install everything and enroll the split phase repeater in the system. Even though the repeater could work without any programming, once it is programed and assigned an ID of your network, it becomes alive and work wonders.

I also read that you might go LED, HAI release the new CFL/LED gen III dimmer with special dimming curve for these type of lights. I am not sure about SA but you might think about it before you buy something !

Good luck !

Thanks for the comments Alezis. However the HAI UPB switches are Gen II or Gen III. Its ok or preferred to use a repeater with them. The SA switches are Gen I and I've read there are issues with the ACK (return acknowledgment) using repeaters with them. You are supposed to only use passive couplers.

I know others here have a lot more experience with UPB then me (I don't even own one yet). Feel free to jump in here...

I did not know SA were gen I as we do not have a lot of distributor that have SA products and I never really work with that product. I am not saying you are making a bad choice as I am absolutely sure they are wonderful products.

I am just reporting this to you as we have a lot of experience with HAI products (over 1000 dimmers sold in numerous installations). The new CFL dimmers are gen III and said to be compatible with a great variaty of CFL and LED products and also compatible with incandescent or magnetic low voltage as well. Since you were maybe thinking about LED, that CLF dimmer might be a good choice for you. Specially that you have the chance to start from scratch, it is time to think about it...

Also, since you know that SA are gen I and they not really responding whell with a repeater, why would you buy these then ? I am not bashing you around, I am really questionning why your descision at this point ? Why not go gen III specially that you will be using a OP II controller !

Have you read this on the HAI website ?

Again, I am not questionning your descision. I just want to understand why you take this direction.

Gen III CFL or standard dimmer with repeater = awesome performance where as yours might be ok performance even with a smaller system...

Regards

My reason would be cost. I'm sure the HAI switches are great, but they are about 3x the cost last time I checked.

My home should be fairly simple. 3000SF with UPB filters at all the main load points that have switching power supplies. Coupler in the breaker box. Should suffice. Later as I slowly implement LEDs I may change out the switch to something designed for those loads. With a little luck they will be cheaper by then.

uh... really... SA are 3X more expensive ? I mean, if I understand this correctly, SA would almost be the same price as x-10pro dimmers ?

Sorry for my previous long post then as I could have shorten this and simply ask you "why" !

You appear to have an agenda.

SA street prices are lower than HAI and PCS.

Gen I or II isn't a huge deal.
Most of the firmware improvements of "Gen II" are incorporated in the SA units without the corresponding lower sensitivity.

SA has some products that are simply not available with other vendors.