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Need lots more power for HAI zones


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#1 Ranger Digital

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 08:54 AM

With a couple dozen glass breaks, motions, heat, smoke detectors, whats the best way to get more power for all these zones?

Also, have an ELK water shut off valve that is one amp. All wiring back to can. Need lots more power than the OPII has.

Ideas?

#2 BraveSirRobbin

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 10:17 AM

This, using this to distribute the low amperage peripherals.

#3 Mr Spock

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 10:25 AM

I don't know how much the elk ps. costs, but allelectronics.com has generic stuff like that for CHEAP. I found a 12v 8A supply for $20.

#4 BraveSirRobbin

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 10:31 AM

Good find. Not pushing the Elk unit, but one nice thing that it comes with is a board that also charges/maintains a battery. It also has excellent short circuit protection as well.

#5 Mr Spock

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 10:37 AM

The stuff at all electronics is usually surplus. Therefore you never really know the details of the product unless you can find it in a google search.

#6 pete_c

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 10:49 AM

That would be the reason for me to purchase an Elk unit versus doing a DIY for my alarm panel.

BSR, Is there a DIY to add supplimental power / batteries to the HAI panel on the forum somewhere?

This would be my first "sub panel" /case to the main HAI panel/case; I can't fit any more inside of it these days.

That said though most likely will be building my first solar panel(s) / battery job thing for my LED landscaping lights with parts from all electronics.

#7 BraveSirRobbin

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 12:36 PM

Just use some general rules of thumb. Add up your peripherals and make sure you are not exceeding 80% or so of your HAI's power capability. Anything over that will need to be powered from an external unit.

I would try to keep any peripheral requiring communications (expansion modules, thermostats, etc...) on the original HAI supply if possible. If not you will need to tie the negatives of your external supply to the HAI's.

I like the Elk's power distribution module to use with an external supply in case you have a short in one of the peripherals (will not take down the entire power supply).

As for solar, well, it can get as complicated as you would like! ;)

I did THIS writeup for you in that past. That will be a lot more technology than you need though if only powering lighting.

#8 pete_c

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 01:54 PM

Thank-you BSR.

The OPII sub panel additional power supply is one endeavor which I probably should have done a few years back. Sub panel will have most likely just have 2 batteries with Elk stuff.

The LED solar panel endeavor is my first attempt at using solar/batteries to power up the new outdoor lighting. Not sure yet on best methodology as I went from 4 commercial toroidal multitap multivoltage transformers to 4 small 12 DC transformers. Will probably go very slow with this endeavor maybe switching 1-2 LED lighting zones over to batteries just to play a bit. I just picked a spot on the roof for two panels which may work?

#9 DELInstallations

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 03:29 PM

I don't know how much the elk ps. costs, but allelectronics.com has generic stuff like that for CHEAP. I found a 12v 8A supply for $20.


Generic, yes, however in the case of fire alarm and life safety devices, not listed for the purpose, especially when DIY your own homebrew solution. There's a reason why the "name brand' units cost a little more.

#10 Work2Play

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 04:14 PM

One more point to add to BSR's suggestions... make sure your sub panel is spec'd to last a hair longer than the main panel. You really don't want a sub-panel to die first - all kinds of crazy things can happen.

#11 Ranger Digital

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 05:49 PM

OK, so if i understand correctly, simply keep all the zones attached to HAI panel and run the power to an external unit. Got it. Easy.
Thanks!

ps. Was thinking HAI had something as would have liked to keep it all in the family. However, it wouldnt matter at all. Power is power. lol

#12 DELInstallations

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 07:30 PM

I'd recommend Altronix, and if you pick out the right unit, you get dry contacts for supervisiory outputs to the panel.

#13 BraveSirRobbin

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 10:55 PM

Yes, Altronix is a nice brand, especially if you need a lot of amperage.

#14 Ranger Digital

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 08:17 AM

Nice. Looking at the http://www.altronix....php?name=ACM8CB (model #Altronix ACM8CB), it says it has normally open connacts. The HAI panel I have set up as NC (hai STILL doesnt allow you to have NO and NC open options, correct? Still one or the other?)

What I would like to do is monitor the altronix for any type of failure and have that report somehow. Is that possible? Cost is not an issue. It just needs to work.

I also dont see the amperage rating in the specs. One output needs to be at least an amp to power the Elk water shut off valve.

When it comes to this type of questions and research, this really is the best site to come to! Love it. THANK YOU!

#15 pete_c

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 11:26 AM

Not ever having done this before is my logic correct?

Original Power Configuration

AC Transformer = = > HAI Panel
Battery = = > HAI Panel

New Power Configuration(s) Which is recommended?

Number 1
Subpanel-autonomous Power = = > HAI Panel (replacing original AC Transformer)
Subpanel battery in subpanel
(NO/NC option from autonomous power supply = = > HAI Panel) guess this isn't needed for this type connection?
Keeping all zone / periferals power connections connected to HAI Panel

or

Number 2
Subpanel with Power and Battery not connected to HAI Panel except for NO/NC switch
Periferals connected to power tabs on subpanel power supply with battery backup

I'm guessing Number 2; cuz it would be more a suppliment for periferals versus an augmentation of the PS to the HAI Panel?

I guess the rule of thumb would be to add up all of the amperage (mW) of all of the periferals based on published specifications; one by one (100Mw + 400Mw + 50 Mw so forth and so on eh?)

IE: Today my combo Optex PIR/Cams PS is a regular fused multicircuit camera power supply. Only its not on a battery; such that once the power goes; so do the PIRs on the cameras and cameras.

Apologies if I am misunderstanding the topology of connectivity relating to the use of a beefier power supply or secondary power source for HAI Panel connected stuff.




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