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Smoke detector for Elk M1G

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#1 Beaumeri



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Posted 29 July 2012 - 10:53 PM

I have a up to code stand alone Smoke detector one per floor and I'd like to have some more smoke linked to my M1 to monitor bedrooms. I have no clue what to look for (brand, spec, etc.. ) for smoke sensor connected to my M1.

I'm looking for brand/model recommendation

Thanks in advance for all the replies.

PS: I'll need 6 of them.

#2 Work2Play



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Posted 30 July 2012 - 01:31 AM

Wow - old code! Code for here, 6 years ago, required about 13 smoke detectors!

It's worth looking into the differences between 2 wire and 4 wire smoke detectors - their limitations, etc. IIRC, 2-wire is only supported on zone 16 onboard, and there are some nuances; 4-wire seems to work on any zone (I'll be corrected if wrong here) and can be separated into multiple zones if desired. There's some room for personal opinion in there.

#3 chrisexv6


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Posted 30 July 2012 - 07:07 AM

I have System Sensor 2 wires connected to my Elk. I had a set of 4 wires to install just in case (was having a strange latency issue in regards to the 2 wires being disarmed once they are set off). In the end I stuck with the 2 wire setup.....did a search around here and seemed to see more people on the pro side of 2 wire than 4 wire (but again its all subjective)

While I like the System Sensor detectors I have, I think they are a little on the ugly side. I believe GE makes "prettier" detectors that are reliable so Id take a look at their offerings if I were to do it all over again.

#4 ReasonablePerson



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Posted 30 July 2012 - 01:04 PM

I would run 4-conductor fire wire just because it isn't that much more expensive than running 2-conductor and gives you more options.

We had GE 449 series in the last house we built and they worked well...i at least presumed they would work well, we actually never had a fire. but they always performed OK with the simulated smoke-in-a-can. Like glass-break detectors and motion alarms, it is equally important that they do not falsely report an alarm and the GEs never did.

I like 4-wire since they can be put on any alarm input so the smokes can be in different zones. we put a smoke in the garage, for example, even though garages are not recommended due to false triggers, but we can use it as a standard input, not a fire alarm input. Also put a rate-of-rise in the attic in a separate zone. smoke down in the mechanical room on a zone and smoke in the generator enclosure on a zone. Only the smokes that are always within their recommended operating conditions (like the main house loop and mechanical room) are configured as fire, the others more-or-less a FYI information but do not trigger a fire call since they may have false alarms.

we are building a new house now and plan to go with the GE again and do the overall setup the same.

Others probably have the same feature, but the GE has a model that has the end of line relay internally which is convenient. Or you can run the wire in a loop and bring back to your cabinet so the end of line relay is accessible.

even if not required by code, we looped the wire into all closets, storage rooms, water heater closet, etc., so we can add the detector later if we feel the need. It only takes a few more feet of wire per drop so it costs next to nothing.

don't forget to run a fire wire outside for an external strobe so the fire dept knows they have the right house.

of course, even with these detectors our local code / AHJ requires line-voltage detectors so we have redundant detectors. With all the LEDs from the smokes/motion/glassbreak/occupancy mounted to the ceiling, we have our own constellations that can be used at night for navigation.

#5 Beaumeri



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Posted 30 July 2012 - 08:09 PM

A little side line note.. Anyone ever used one of these http://www.shopkidde...moke-alarm.html ?? I think I'll be replacing my current one with these as I'm looking for some more for my M1.

Just found out not for use in Canada.. :-(

Edited by Beaumeri, 30 July 2012 - 08:11 PM.

#6 DELInstallations



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Posted 30 July 2012 - 08:57 PM

I wouldn't follow the post regarding the use of smokes within a space that is outside of spec for the installation requirements, even with the units programmed as local units....huge no-no and if something happens, your insurer will have a field day, as what equates to a known design flaw, with mounting location and response is the end result. An alarm that falses all the time due to misinstallation is just as bad, if not worse, than no alarm at all.

If you're installing items within a space subject to enviromental concerns, such as a generator enclosure or garage, install a heat detector and monitor that separately, but program it as a responding fire zone. Is specific hazards are known and even a standard heat is not appropriate, an item such as a linear heat detector (protectawire) can be used.

GE makes some "nice" looking units, however they are a pain to service and work on IMHO. Given the choice, I'd go System Sensor or DS (Bosch now) because of their wiring and mounting design vs. GE's. The 449's are extremely dated and lacking a lot of the benefits of the engineering that has come since they were first designed, almost 30 years since the original 400's (445's) but to each their own.

If price were no object, I'd suggest looking at some of the smaller addressable panels that support 25 devices, then integrate with a host panel. Wiring multiple 4 wire fire zones, even with proper EOL supervision relays, will cause all sorts of grief when performing a fire reset, making all your fire zones go into trouble at the same time, unless creative programming is done on the host panel.

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