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Which belden cable for security?


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#1 rsspencer

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:01 PM

Would one of you fine people be able to provide me a belden model # for 22/4 wire to use for security? I'm a newbie HO providing a few thousand feet of the wire for the installer for door & window contacts as well as PIR's, glass breaks, flood sensors, occupancy sensors and the like but can't figure out which belden cable I should use.

5541UE?

6502UE?
5522UE?
5502UE?
5502UG?
8444?

The prices seem to vary wildly (especially for 8444) but they are all 22/4 so I'm not sure why the big differences unless some is plenum or fire rated or something? I tried searching the forums but didn't find specific model numbers.

If there is a longer length of run, say over 100', would it be better to use one model over another that would be better/cheaper for shorter runs?
Stranded or solid?

Any light you can shed on the subject will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Rob

#2 Work2Play

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 12:38 AM

Any of these cables will work, but here's the differences:
  • 5541UE - Unshielded Stranded 22AWG - Riser Rated
  • 6502UE - Unshielded Stranded 22AWG - Plenum Rated
  • 5522UE - Unshielded Solid 22AWG - Riser Rated
  • 5502UE - Unshielded Stranded 22AWG - Riser Rated
  • 5502UG - Unshielded Stranded 22AWG - General Use
  • 8444
UE is riser rated, UG is general use. Nothing wrong with using riser rated, but not necessary in residential. Plenum really isn't needed in residential. Some people prefer stranded, some people prefer solid (I prefer stranded).

*double check all that - but that was a quick lookup on belden's catalog.

I don't know what pricing is like, but any will do just fine... and 22AWG is what you'll use for all normal security/motion (22/2 for contacts, 22/4 for motion/glassbreak/and any other powered sensor)... 18AWG for speakers/sirens. Cat5/6 for keypads. If you do any fire/smoke alarms, those need fire rated cabling, as does at least one keypad and the speakers if the units don't have internal sounders.

#3 DELInstallations

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 09:02 AM

Riser is required for runs that penetrate more than 1 floor or vertical runs in a shaft. (R suffixed cable). So if you have a typical 2 story building and only run from first to the second, *technically* that is not a riser, but if you run up to an attic or down to a basement, then riser would be required based on the technical definition.

X suffix cable is for general usage when a riser is not present.

Honestly, I would not install any cabling that is not riser rated in a residence, too many grey areas and possible areas that would cause failing an inspection depending on how creative the interpretation of code may or may not be.

As alluded to, any component wiring that is used as part of a fire alarm system need to be run in fire cable, not just a single unit.

#4 Sandpiper

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 02:42 PM

Riser cable is not required in one- and two-family dwellings....no matter how many floors it has.

NEC 725.154(B)(3)- Type CL2, CL3, CL2X, and CL3X cables shall be permitted in one- and two-family dwellings.

NEC 760.154(B)(3)- Type FPL cable shall be permitted in one- and two-family dwellings.

#5 Work2Play

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 04:17 PM

Thx Sandpiper - I didn't think so... usually the stuff used in residential is much lower grade than what we'd normally work with in commercial and the only requirement I've ever heard come up is the firewire for the above-mentioned items.

#6 DELInstallations

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 05:45 PM

Riser cable is not required in one- and two-family dwellings....no matter how many floors it has.

NEC 725.154( B)(3)- Type CL2, CL3, CL2X, and CL3X cables shall be permitted in one- and two-family dwellings.

NEC 760.154( B)(3)- Type FPL cable shall be permitted in one- and two-family dwellings.



Depends on which code cycle and interpretation, as I stated, as well as the AHJ's interpretation. In the code sections listed, FPN's also further classify and tighten requirements from general usage cables within the same code references, and actually contradict in a couple of locations. In NE, we are mandated for riser cables. A large contractor got dinged on a subdevelopment project (understatement) here where the cables that only penetrated a single floor, IE: basement to first, were allowed, but any cabling that went further were failed.

It was always our (and AHJ's in surrounding states) interpretation that a riser cable is required for any cable run that passes through a fire rated floor/wall (which is now the case, as fire caulking is required for any penetration) and rising between floors is the definition of a riser. I don't have my NEC handy, however I remember a section in either '97 or '99 handbook editions that specified a maximum number of floors, even considering residential, before it would be considered a riser GP listed cable not being acceptable.

Honestly, given the trivial price difference vs. safety factor alone, I would move to a riser simply for those purposes alone.

Here's part of a reference I could find easily:
Riser- This is a listing designed for a vertical run as in from floor to floor. Cable must have fire resistant characteristics and be capable of preventing the spread of fire between floors.This listing is acceptable for the other two listings.


General Purpose- This listing encompasses general purpose installations other than risers, ducts, plenums or other air handling space. Cable must be resistant to the spread of fire. This listing is acceptable for the one remaining listing.

#7 ArmandCable

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 12:09 AM

5502UG is all you need for any residential run.
(8444 has tinned copper. It's also got heavier insulation & jacket, and a listing that allows it to be used as a part in a portable appliance or wire harness.)
All the other parts you listed are for commercial construction vs. residential.
(any 22/4 off the shelf at the hardware store will do.)

Other manufacturer's and makes:
Tappan R20045
General Cable E1004S
West Penn 241
...are equal to Belden 5502UE (commercial grade.)

#8 Sandpiper

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 03:57 AM

A note of clarification....... 5502UG is type CM which is an acceptable substitute foir either FPL, CL2, or CL3.

#9 rsspencer

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:07 PM

Thank-you for all the good info. That helps a lot. I think I'm starting to understand belden's numbering system a bit. But shear number of variations of cable is staggaring. Not to mention various lenghts and colors and reels vs. boxes, etc. Great to have choices but a bit overwhelming.
1. If I have security contact or PIR runs over 100', will 22 awg be sufficient or should I go with a 20 or 18 gauge?

2. Also, for a reality check, is belden 1853a good for general networking of a few computers and general automation of random things around the place?

Cheers,
Rob Scott

#10 rsspencer

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:13 PM

Oh, and for those noobies that may come after looking for wire, I decided on Belden #5502UE though the "riser approved" is a bit overkill for residential.
"5502UE - 009U1000" the "009" is color code for white, the "U" is for a box instead of a reel (omit "U" for reel) and "1000" is the lenght in box or on reel.

#11 DELInstallations

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 07:50 PM

22 AWG is fine for everything alarm EXCEPT speakers, sirens, strobes, fire alarm, or anything that is running in the few hundred foot range (distance) from the panel. If you're not sure for data bus devices, look at the manufacturer of the components you are looking at.

#12 newalarm

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 02:00 PM

You would probably not need Riser Rated if you put fireblocking between floors. We drilled some holes and ran the wire, so this could technically be a riser, but I plan to stuff openings with fire foam or other (that would slow the progress of fire).

FYI, plenum is the space between a ceiling (usually dropped in or accoustical 2x2 ceiling) and the bottom of the deck or slab in commercial spaces. This space is often accessed for repairs and installing new wires/equipment so it needs to be heavy duty sheathing.

Edited by newalarm, 21 August 2012 - 02:00 PM.


#13 DELInstallations

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 06:12 PM

Newalarm,

Your definition of a plenum is incorrect. Also, a cable being used as a riser would not change definition based simply on fireblocking existing or not.

The space can only be classified as a plenum if it's used for return/enviromental air. Just because there's a drop tile ceiling or HVAC that exists in it doesn't automatically make it a plenum or necessitate plenum rated cabling, nor are plenums limited to dropped ceilings, though they are more common with dropped ceilings.

The need or lack of heavier outer jacket on cabling has no bearing to cable location or usage in standard applications, cable rating (plenum, riser, general, limited) has no bearing or function to define the "toughness" of a jacket or sheathing, it is only how a particular manufacturer's cable is constructed.

For example, I can purchase a multi-element access control sable, plenum rated, and one manufacturer offers "rope laid" construction of the elements, the other offers a jacketed construction and the third offers a splined/zippered construction or I can pull 4 separate cables, all the same cable, basic jacket, just different methods and marketing of the same product.

#14 Work2Play

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 01:33 AM

To continue on with what DEL said, Plenum cable is specifically required in such air handling spaces not because it's tougher or thicker or anything like that; Plenum cable is specially designed to help slow the spread of fire and to produce a less toxic smoke which is important in an air handling system.

Riser is a step down from plenum that's not as strict, but also has properties to help slow the spread of fire.

Plenum and Riser both tend to have stronger support strings to help support the weight from hanging cables; and they get increasingly stiffer and harder to bend generally.

They're also progressive; you can use Riser or Plenum anywhere General Use cable is allowed; you can use Plenum in spaces that call for Riser; etc. But they come at quite a premium over general use.

In a past life I both ran a lot of cable, but also had to manage contractors for all cable runs in a large nationwide company - and it blew me away how many people actually didn't know the difference - most would specify Plenum cabling out of laziness not understanding that in a single-floor building, as long as the entire air handling system is ducted, it's not required... That said, I think the minimum I've ever used in Commercial is Riser even when not needed; For residential I've been known to use the horrible stuff that Home Depot sells in a pinch for a run or two, but would never do a whole house in it.

#15 DELInstallations

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 06:06 AM

Usually the strings or threads aren't for cable construction or support, it's to provide a rip cord to remove the jacket easier. ;)

An off-tangent fact is UL and other testing agencies are starting to realize that the plenum cables actually produce more toxic smoke than standard cables once they start burning, so there's talk about reworking the whole plenum category.




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