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Trouble using Elk M1 Gold KP2 input


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#1 gtomkins

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 12:29 AM

Hoping somebody can help me.
I have an M1 Gold and a KP2 kepyad.
I connected a dual RFID reader/Doorbell to the KP2.
The RFID reader works great but I cannot get the input to recognise the dorbell.
I have wired the input exactly as the ELK manual suggests with 2.2k resistor between Gnd and the input(blue wire).
The doorbell contacts short when pressed as tested by multimeter and are in parallel with the resistor.
I have created the input zone (193) on the software but the status shows 0volts and short (-).
I measured the blue wire input on the back of the KP2 and it reads approx 6.8volts normal and 0 volts when doorbell pressed.
Using the software I have set it as a 16-Non-Alarm input, the status shows violated and short (-).

Am I doing something wrong or is the KP2 possibly faulty?

Thanks in advance.

#2 Work2Play

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 01:18 AM

Did you set is as an EOL zone? Also, set the Fast Loop Response on that zone. You probably don't need that 2.2ohm resistor to be honest.

Try the basics - just short the zone and see if you get the desired response (or if properly set as EOLR, short it with a 2.2 resistor to mimic a full zone); you already tested the button from the sounds of things. Lastly, the button doesn't have a light inside like a traditional doorbell button does it? It's really just a straight pushbutton?

#3 gtomkins

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 06:00 AM

Hi Work2Play, thanks for your quick response.
I have removed cable from the switch device and shorted out the wires from the switch end, still no change. When doing this on the KP2 my multimeter shows the voltage drop on the blue wire from about 6.8v to 0v when shorted. Still no joy when I look at status on the software on my PC.
In the configuration I have definition set as 16=Non-Alarm, Type 0=EOL Supervised/RF, Area=1 (Same as KP). Tried Fast Loop Response no luck.
I also have metered the pushbutton and it does not seem to have any connections to a light, ground, etc.
The status still shows violated and short(-).
I created the input zone by adding new input zone 13 (seemed to add many keypad inputs of which I used zone 193). Do I have to do anything else like delete and re-enroll my keypad?
As a double check from a wiring perspective my switch is normally open, it is connected across the black (ground/0v) wire and the Blue(zone input wire) of the KP2 in parallel with the 2.2k resistor.

#4 gtomkins

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 06:02 AM

That should read I created the input zone by adding new input Hardwired - Exp 13

#5 Work2Play

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 10:25 AM

OK - are you familiar with using the continuity checker on the voltmeter? That's the one to test the button/wiring with. Set to Ohms, you should see different values based on someone pressing the button or not; either infinite resistance, dead short (usually accompanied by a beep from the meter) or an amount of resistance (around 2.2K ohms).

And to be honest, I've never used the input zones on the keypad - it seems weird to me that you'd have to create a zone group to get access to these zones, but I'm looking in RP right now and I guess I don't see any other way. Hopefully someone else that's done this can chime in if that's normal or if there's another way.

#6 DELInstallations

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 12:58 PM

Group 13 needs to be added to access any of the zones contained on addressable KP inputs (or 212S').

You need to make sure the KP zone works properly first, to eliminate a possible bad input.

With the button removed, the EOLR going from blue to GND, what voltages are you reading? Is the zone secure or faulted? Next, try opening the blue to resistor, what results do you get?

Does the button have some sort of LED or diode involved?

#7 KenN

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 01:42 PM

gtomkins ...

Since I'm in the middle of installing my own Elk system (and because I'm so darn curious), I decided to set up my own test. I have a M1G with one XIN 16-zone expander, two KP2 keypads and a XEP ethernet board. I went through the following steps;

1. added group 13 zones to get access to zones 193-208.
2. configured zones 193 and 194 as 'test01' and 'test02'. Enabled the zones by defining them as non-alarm (type 16) and normally closed.

Then I tested with the system live by shorting the blue wire to the black wire on the KP2 harness and watching the Status dialog. Worked first time for both zones. So, I can confirm that it does work as advertised. This leads me to think that there is a gremlin in your system with either programming or hardware. You'll probably want to try testing the circuit pretty much as suggested - by ringing out the wiring and contact device (doorbell p/b) and maybe un-enroll/re-enroll the keypad.

#8 KenN

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 01:44 PM

Does the button have some sort of LED or diode involved?


Good thought - the zone input wouldn't like any kind of current draw or load outside of the EOLR!

#9 Work2Play

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 04:41 PM

Does the button have some sort of LED or diode involved?

Asked and answered in posts 2 and 3.

#10 gtomkins

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 12:12 AM

Hi All,
I did disconnect the switch at the connector, that is only the EOL resistor across the input which shows the same result so have now discounted the switch. When I get home from work tonight I will remove the EOL resistor and see the result, I will unenroll and re-enroll the keypad and try the other suggestions above.
Stay posted I will let you know how I go.

Again thanks everybody for your help so far.

#11 gtomkins

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:58 AM

Just got home so I disconnected the EOL resistor and totally removed the button, so nothing connected to the KP2, still same result. I unenrolled and re-enrolled the keypad and no change, I deleted and recreated the KP zones no change. I set the input as non-alarm 16, tried EOL, then Norm Open then Norm Closed but no change.

Also before doing this I checked voltages on the input with the EOL resistor and KP still intact, my multimeter showed the voltage on the blue wire at the rear of the keypad at about 6.8v dropping to 0v when button pressed.

I am thinking I have a faulty input on my Keypad and may have to hardwire the bell button back to my panel (I chose the input on the keypad because it is about 12 inches away from my bell button and saved me having to crawl around up in the ceiling space).

Thanks everybody for your help.

#12 Work2Play

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 03:28 PM

So silly question here, but are you 100% sure you're using the correct zone input number for that keypad? If you go into that keypad in ElkRP it'll tell you which input the keypad's zone will be. If that looks right, test *something* to make absolutely 100% sure that it's the right keypad you're working with - dim the screen or make it beep or something - make 100% sure that the keypads aren't mixed up.

Your voltage readings say everything is working right - Before I'd accept that the panel is just broken, I'd bet it's going to be one of those "Doh!" moments.

#13 DELInstallations

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 07:54 PM

Asked and answered in posts 2 and 3.

Not truly. If the diode was forward biased when metered, then he'd see the change. If it was not, then he wouldn't have seen anything happen.

#14 Work2Play

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 01:22 AM

True but his testing eliminated that as being the problem by testing directly at the keypad bypassing the button altogether.

#15 gtomkins

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 02:39 AM

Hi Guys,
I only have one keypad so have eliminated getting the wrong keypad. I think my last effort will be to scrub the system and keypad then update to latest firmware and see how it goes, sounds like a weekend job though. Will let you know how I go.




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