Whole Home Audio - Technologies

Can someone school me on the real whole home systems?
 
I've currently got the poor man's version... using the second zone from my Pioneer AVR into a 6-zone speaker selector. However, I'm about to relocate all of my main living room AVR equipment into a central closet, and feel like it may be a good time to upgrade to a true whole-home audio system.
 
I currently have the following zones: front porch, back porch, kitchen, garage, master BR, and master BA. I'd really like to expand it to an 8-zone system, so that I could add the other 2 bedrooms as well. Having said that, I've pulled up the Russound website and see that they offer what seems to be 3 different systems: C-Series Controllers, CA Controllers, and A-BUS. However, I have no idea what the real differences are between each of these or how they compare to versions from other companies such as NuVo.
 
I'm not partial to any singular brand as of yet, but I do want metadata displayed on keypads; at least title/artist. I don't know of any reason that I'd want it integrated into a larger HA system as of now, but would appreciate the capability if I ever desired to do so. I'd like something that I can control via app, as opposed to having to use the keypads or go directly to the controller. The main reason for this is that I didn't wire either of the porch speakers for a VC, and probably won't do so; having the app would allow remote control without having to go to the closet.

You know, I've looked at the various systems but ended up coming back to Sonos. It isn't cheap and isn't the traditional whole home system. However, it absolutely works, the hardware and software is top notch in user interface and capability. Also, I have older ZP80 Connects, newer Connects, and Sonos Play5s(sound is only ok to me but kids like them). They all still work and they all still get updates. The software also gets all of the streaming services way before some of the traditional whole home audio systems. Also, I've seen support for some of the WHA systems stop or go on life support. Sonos is doing nothing but getting better and expanding their offerings. Granted, it isn't cheap, actually it's downright expensive, but it has always worked for me. Not much else technology related that I can say that about except my RadioRa2 lighting. Just a satisfied customer.

dgage said:

You know, I've looked at the various systems but ended up coming back to Sonos. It isn't cheap and isn't the traditional whole home system. However, it absolutely works, the hardware and software is top notch in user interface and capability. Also, I have older ZP80 Connects, newer Connects, and Sonos Play5s(sound is only ok to me but kids like them). They all still work and they all still get updates. The software also gets all of the streaming services way before some of the traditional whole home audio systems. Also, I've seen support for some of the WHA systems stop or go on life support. Sonos is doing nothing but getting better and expanding their offerings. Granted, it isn't cheap, actually it's downright expensive, but it has always worked for me. Not much else technology related that I can say that about except my RadioRa2 lighting. Just a satisfied customer.

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From what I've seen [in the past] Sonos is comprised of their own wireless speakers. If that's still the case, then it's definitely not what I'm looking for... mainly because I've already got the 6 wired zones and associated speakers. I'm not trying to start over from scratch, but rather improve [and expand] what I've already got. Additionally, I'm really a fan of table top speakers; that's precisely why I'm moving all of my A/V gear into a centralized closet... to get rid of furniture and devices, and have a cleaner, more open space.

Sonos started out with individual "Connect" devices called Connect and ConnectAmp so you can hook up your own amp and stereo gear or speakers directly.  There is a wireless Sonos Bridge that is the core of their system and I don't know what frequency it uses but it hasn't had problems in my house with the Bridge on the main floor and Sonos devices on the second floor and basement.  Sonos has more recently brought out speakers at various capabilities and even a wireless sub that gets pretty good reviews.  I really don't care for their speakers but they work well for the kids until I can get ceiling speakers installed in their rooms and then I can take their Play5 outsite when I fell like it.  But the core Connects that I have allow me to use my own amp and ceiling speakers (nice NHT IC4), which is probably exactly like what you want to do.  Actually, even better, I'm using Sherbourn 7x125w (home theater) amps for my whole home audio so the sound is much better than the normal 40 or 60w whole home audio built-in amplifiers.  The only downside is that Sonos hasn't capitalized on the whole home audio like they could, which would be to put together a device like the other manufacturers have done that have multiple rooms in a single chassis; with Sonos now, you'd have to put multiple Connects in the rack, like I and others have done.  For whole home audio, the hardware isn't as slick since there isn't the combined chassis but the software more than makes up for it.

dgage said:

Sonos started out with individual "Connect" devices called Connect and ConnectAmp so you can hook up your own amp and stereo gear or speakers directly.  There is a wireless Sonos Bridge that is the core of their system and I don't know what frequency it uses but it hasn't had problems in my house with the Bridge on the main floor and Sonos devices on the second floor and basement.  Sonos has more recently brought out speakers at various capabilities and even a wireless sub that gets pretty good reviews.  I really don't care for their speakers but they work well for the kids until I can get ceiling speakers installed in their rooms and then I can take their Play5 outsite when I fell like it.  But the core Connects that I have allow me to use my own amp and ceiling speakers (nice NHT IC4), which is probably exactly like what you want to do.  Actually, even better, I'm using Sherbourn 7x125w (home theater) amps for my whole home audio so the sound is much better than the normal 40 or 60w whole home audio built-in amplifiers.  The only downside is that Sonos hasn't capitalized on the whole home audio like they could, which would be to put together a device like the other manufacturers have done that have multiple rooms in a single chassis; with Sonos now, you'd have to put multiple Connects in the rack, like I and others have done.  For whole home audio, the hardware isn't as slick since there isn't the combined chassis but the software more than makes up for it.

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If I'm reading that correctly, you're saying that I'd need a Connect or ConnectAmp for each Zone?
 
If so, that would take up more space than all of the other equipment that I'm planning to move to the centralized closet all together. This doesn't sound like anything that I'm interested in... definitely looking for more of a singular chassis system... with in-wall keypads as well.

http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/25893-monoprice-multi-zone-audio/
http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/25648-hifi2-sources-challenges/
http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/24329-what-do-you-recommend-for-whole-house-audio-for-local-and-streaming-services-spotify-etc/

Yep, Connect for each zone, which is 5.5x5.5x3"(wxhxd). Just throwing it out. Good luck.

Just to add some info..
 
When I bought my house, 3 rooms and the back patio were wired with speakers back to a closet by the laundry room. 
 
After looking at various options I ended up putting 3 Sonos ZP120s in the closet to drive the den, master bedroom and patio speakers.  I have since added a Sonos sub to the the den as well.
The three ZP120s take up about as much room as three Mac Minis.  I also put a Play5 in my kitchen which is grouped with the player for the den.  I have my music collection on an Apple time capsule that the system plays from happily.  I don't use the Sonos bridge as I have a network connection available in the closet on an airport express and I just tied the first ZP120 into that.  Having access to my music library, internet radio, local radio, satellite radio and Pandora anywhere in the house from any phone or computer on the network has been fantastic.
 
My eventual plan is to pull more wire and put in a Nuvo system with keypads in each room, but for now the Sonos system turned out to be the quickest, easiest solution and it sounds great.
 
Your mileage may vary.

az1324 said:

http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/25893-monoprice-multi-zone-audio/
http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/25648-hifi2-sources-challenges/
http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/24329-what-do-you-recommend-for-whole-house-audio-for-local-and-streaming-services-spotify-etc/

Click to expand...

 
Yeah, I've seen the Monoprice thread... but it's only a 6-zone system, and doesn't have metadata keypads (from what I could tell). I really, don't want to have to daisy-chain 2 of them together just to get 8 zones.
 
I really haven't looked at the HiFi2, but having an Elk makes me shy away... not sure what the limitations would be there, but I'll check into it.
 
The only streaming service that I'm concerned with [today] is Pandora and it's offered on most every solution.

FaderJockey said:

Just to add some info..
 
When I bought my house, 3 rooms and the back patio were wired with speakers back to a closet by the laundry room. 
 
After looking at various options I ended up putting 3 Sonos ZP120s in the closet to drive the den, master bedroom and patio speakers.  I have since added a Sonos sub to the the den as well.
The three ZP120s take up about as much room as three Mac Minis.  I also put a Play5 in my kitchen which is grouped with the player for the den.  I have my music collection on an Apple time capsule that the system plays from happily.  I don't use the Sonos bridge as I have a network connection available in the closet on an airport express and I just tied the first ZP120 into that.  Having access to my music library, internet radio, local radio, satellite radio and Pandora anywhere in the house from any phone or computer on the network has been fantastic.
 
My eventual plan is to pull more wire and put in a Nuvo system with keypads in each room, but for now the Sonos system turned out to be the quickest, easiest solution and it sounds great.
 
Your mileage may vary.

Click to expand...

 
That's where I am now, as I've already got 6 wired zones... just trying to find a new system to put in.
 
From what I've been able to gather so far, it looks like the NuVo Concerto is what I'm looking for. It's the only 8-zone system that I've come across so far; not looking to daisy-chain (2) 6-zone systems to have (4) unused zones.
 
Russound has a 8-zone model (MCA-C5), but only 6 of the zones are amplified, but I do like their Digital Media Streamer.

2 monoprice systems are almost half the price of one nuvo system and you may want more zones someday.  But nuvo has higher wattage amps, designer keypads, metadata, probably better build quality.
 
Relegating the keypads to control only the amp and using handheld devices for content is my preference.  But nuvo seems like it might be the best for your needs.

Nuvo is no longer DIY-friendly - they've essentially stymied access to hardware, to better support their pro installers.  You'll be paying close to MSRP for the hardware.  This change happened about a year ago.  If you don't mind paying full price, and can get access to the programming software (sign up for pro status on the Nuvo website), then it's a great option.
 
I have a Nuvo GC.  If I had to install today, I'd go with the Russound MCA-C5, plus their music server.  I don't know much about their music server, honestly, but I do know it's essential.  Definitely factor that into the price of any system.
 
The Nuvo MPS4 Music Server costs about the same as 2 individual components; it provides 4 independent audio streams to the controller/amp.  It's the only source I've used for my Nuvo GC.
 
The MPS4 gave me some headaches initially.  I had to RMA it twice (through Automated Outlet - no longer a Nuvo distributor), but AO was very good, and the exchange process was painless.  The second time, I upgraded to the MPS4E.  So, beware of gray market (i.e. ebay) Nuvo hardware.  You'll want that warranty.  The music server is a locked-down PC, and needs occasional rebooting (I restart it perhaps every few months).  Member jautor has his MPS4 configured to reboot nightly (not sure how he's done that), to avoid the hassle of rebooting when needed.
 
I started the same way as you, when I moved into my house, with a 6-zone speaker selector box.  I changed the home-run location of my speakers, and added cat cables to the volume-control locations.  And, added 5 more zones, using the GC Expander.
 
I similarly didn't consider Sonos initially, because I wasn't aware that any in-ceiling and in-wall speakers could be used.  I've since figured that out - but I still appreciate the metadata on the keypads, and ease of KP control.
 
Some examples of multizone Sonos systems:
 

 

 

Only 6 of the Nuvo GC's 8 zones are amplified as well.

az1324 said:

2 monoprice systems are almost half the price of one nuvo system and you may want more zones someday.  But nuvo has higher wattage amps, designer keypads, metadata, probably better build quality.
 
Relegating the keypads to control only the amp and using handheld devices for content is my preference.  But nuvo seems like it might be the best for your needs.

Click to expand...

 
I suppose that's true... the main reason I said that about not really wanting 12-zones is because there is NO way I'll ever have that in the current home. For the longest time, I never thought I would go beyond 6, but I figure if I'm relocating wire, I may as well add in the two other BRs which would basically include every area of the home. It would be practically impossible to go with more than 8 zones in this home without zones that overlap significantly.
 
Having said that, I probably won't leave the system here and moving to a bigger home could possibly mean the use of more zones....
 
I would definitely use my phone for control some zones (e.g. front porch and back porch), but I definitely want in-wall keypads for others (e.g. MBR, MBA, garage, and addt'l bedrooms). Yes, I do have my phone on me the majority of the time... but not always.

Neurorad said:

Nuvo is no longer DIY-friendly - they've essentially stymied access to hardware, to better support their pro installers.  You'll be paying close to MSRP for the hardware.  This change happened about a year ago.  If you don't mind paying full price, and can get access to the programming software (sign up for pro status on the Nuvo website), then it's a great option.
 
I have a Nuvo GC.  If I had to install today, I'd go with the Russound MCA-C5, plus their music server.  I don't know much about their music server, honestly, but I do know it's essential.  Definitely factor that into the price of any system.
 
The Nuvo MPS4 Music Server costs about the same as 2 individual components; it provides 4 independent audio streams to the controller/amp.  It's the only source I've used for my Nuvo GC.
 
The MPS4 gave me some headaches initially.  I had to RMA it twice (through Automated Outlet - no longer a Nuvo distributor), but AO was very good, and the exchange process was painless.  The second time, I upgraded to the MPS4E.  So, beware of gray market (i.e. ebay) Nuvo hardware.  You'll want that warranty.  The music server is a locked-down PC, and needs occasional rebooting (I restart it perhaps every few months).  Member jautor has his MPS4 configured to reboot nightly (not sure how he's done that), to avoid the hassle of rebooting when needed.
 
I started the same way as you, when I moved into my house, with a 6-zone speaker selector box.  I changed the home-run location of my speakers, and added cat cables to the volume-control locations.  And, added 5 more zones, using the GC Expander.
 
I similarly didn't consider Sonos initially, because I wasn't aware that any in-ceiling and in-wall speakers could be used.  I've since figured that out - but I still appreciate the metadata on the keypads, and ease of KP control.
 
Some examples of multizone Sonos systems:

Click to expand...

 
As mentioned above, definitely a fan of KP control... and not so much a fan of the quantity of Sonos devices in those installations.
 
 

Neurorad said:

Only 6 of the Nuvo GC's 8 zones are amplified as well.

Click to expand...

 
Good to know - I definitely missed that. I guess it's back to the 6-zone systems then...