Nest Smoke Detector Compatibility

I have wired kidde co2/smoke detectors in my home tied to my elk, and there is a room that is not tied in which I would like to be monitored.
I read that nest had 2 versions (wired and wireless) and can be linked together.
Does anyone know if I can replace a wired Kidde detector with a Nest wired version and have the same functionality, then add a wireless version in the other room and link it to the wired one so it too would trigger my elk panel via the wired version?

Thanks

The initial two smoke alarms (wired and wireless) that Nest is selling so far are not for use with an alarm panel.
 
They do say that they are coming out with a version that will work with a panel this year, but it doesn't appear
to be available yet.
 
http://support.nest.com/article/What-is-Nest-Protect-for-Security-Systems

The Kidde CO/smoke ALARMS are not designed for alarm panel use either :blink:

One limitation of the Nest Protect is you will have to replace ALL of your smoke alarms in the house as they will only interconnect with themselves, and wirelessly at that (even the wired version).
 
https://nest.com/blog/2013/12/05/your-nest-protect-questions-our-answers/
 
And as RAL mentioned, Nest does appear to be coming out with a version to interface with alarms.

FWIW, there was a teaser email sent out by Elk literally today that they'll be announcing their new 2-way smoke detector that works with their relatively new 2-way wireless transceiver.  I only read it on my phone - didn't find any quick info on if it's all battery or 120V/battery/etc - but it could be worth checking out.
 
The Nest products serve a niche of partial home intelligence, but they don't come close to what can be done with a fully connected home where everything talks to each other - as many cocooners have.  Of course some of the advanced logic is nice but the tie-in to your security and motion status can really take things to the next level with some good automation rules.

I doubt the Elk unit is going to have provision for 120VAC....think about the nature of the business and liability. Most pros don't carry an unlimited electrical license, then what about the liabilities involved with modifying an existing and code compliant system that was signed off for 120VAC with hardwired travelers/triggers. While Elk deals with the DIY crowd, think about their core sales and support.....
 
It's an interesting product and might get someone out of a jam if the AHJ signs off on it or decent for a retrofit, but again, I don't see there being much in the "pro" column to put only an Elk receiver and products on my system because there isn't enough variety and abilities in the product yet.

DELInstallations said:

The Kidde CO/smoke ALARMS are not designed for alarm panel use either :blink:

Click to expand...

 
This is the device that allowed me to use them on my ELK install
 



Kidde SM120X Smoke Detector 120V Hardwired Relay Module for ICombo

• Activates or Deactivates Auxiliary Devices
• 1 Set of Form "C" Contacts
• For Use with Multiple Station Alarms
• Acts As Power Supply
• For Use with Smoke Alarm/Heat Detector Product

 
I just noticed Home Depot has 2 for $200 on NEST protect devices...   Holding out for the version you are talking about.

There have been endless very heated debates about monitoring regular smoke alarms through your panel.  Yes electrically speaking what you've done should absolutely work as a trigger on your M1 - but
 
1) it should never be used for alerting authorities automatically...  120V smoke alarms are a different detector type that's faster reacting but more prone to false alarms; also once you start treating your security system as a FACP then it needs to have the right protections including fire-rated wire to the smokes and at least one keypad, and a host of other changes.
 
2) there's the argument that the mere connection of that relay to the fire alarm counts as a modification to the system... and should a significant loss occur (property damage, loss of life) and it's found that for any reason the system didn't operate as expected, could you be blamed for tampering with the system?  Who knows what an insurance company may try if they don't want to pay out on a claim.
 
The short summary is that it's often recommended to keep the existing 120V smokes around the house that are interconnected - they're faster to respond but may false alarm more by nature.  These are what really protects against loss of life because they're designed to get everyone awake and on alert as quickly as possible.  Monitored smoke alarms tend to be slower to react because they're designed to not false alarm as easily.  I believe the more common route a lot of people have gone is to just leave the 120VAC linked systems alone, then add 1-2 monitored smoke detectors as well specifically for alerting the authorities - mainly if you're not home.
 
YMMV but just wanted to summarize what's transpired in these threads... you could probably find some fun threads if you just search Elk FACP.

Yes, I have "witnesses" some of these threads, and tread this subject with caution
 
Thanks again.

I believe the more common route a lot of people have gone is to just leave the 120VAC linked systems alone, then add 1-2 monitored smoke detectors as well specifically for alerting the authorities - mainly if you're not home.

Click to expand...

 
I did that.  It was a learning experience for me personally.  That said said home has two sets of smoke detectors today.   Over the last couple of years I did replace all of the HV smokes (every room  - PITA - vaulted ceilings) in a home built around 2000 (said other house).  Inexpensive to do (> 10 smokes); just time consuming.  Same base such that I didn't have to play with the HV.
 
(smokes set #1) A zoned LV set up with the Leviton HAI OPII panel and
(smokes set #2) what was installed by the original builder (120VAC).
 
Wife is sort of OK with zoned smokes set #1.-   WAF 1-10 (1 bad => 10 good) ~ 3 (aesthetically pleasing)
 
On the fence relating to if I really needed to zone the smokes to the panel. 
 
Do I care? well sort of regarding what I utilize today. (mostly cuz I am into home automation). 

Big517 said:

This is the device that allowed me to use them on my ELK install
 

Kidde SM120X Smoke Detector 120V Hardwired Relay Module for ICombo

• Activates or Deactivates Auxiliary Devices
• 1 Set of Form "C" Contacts
• For Use with Multiple Station Alarms
• Acts As Power Supply
• For Use with Smoke Alarm/Heat Detector Product

 
I just noticed Home Depot has 2 for $200 on NEST protect devices...   Holding out for the version you are talking about.

Click to expand...

Not listed for use or connection to a FACP or other panel. Used to trip external items, such as bed thumpers, strobes, etc. Read the spec sheet...there's a reason why it does NOT mention those sorts of items.
 
I've dealt with the insurers when items like this were added to a system by "others" and had to provide consulting and opinions as to what the device did or did not do, failure modes and listing. It's not a fun day.

I am using this solely for Home Automation as well.
 
Smoke tripped > 5 seconds (test trips for 3 seconds) and actions are taken including flashing all exterior lights on/off, turning off HVAC systems, unlocking doors, Illuminating hallways and exit areas, mute the home audio systems, pause the TVs, and play audio instructions to help the kids escape safely (stay low below the smoke, etc...)

btw, pete_c.  Congrats, that was your 3333rd post
 
Cocoonut

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Big517 said:

I am using this solely for Home Automation as well.
 
Smoke tripped > 5 seconds (test trips for 3 seconds) and actions are taken including flashing all exterior lights on/off, turning off HVAC systems, unlocking doors, Illuminating hallways and exit areas, mute the home audio systems, pause the TVs, and play audio instructions to help the kids escape safely (stay low below the smoke, etc...)

Click to expand...

Hope you have a very lenient insurer....it makes no difference what you're using it for, just connecting it to the panel is a violation.

Connecting it to anything but a panel listed for fire is a different animal, but the burg panel becomes a FACP when it's connected to the loop, no matter what the purposes are.

Work2Play said:

The Nest products serve a niche of partial home intelligence, but they don't come close to what can be done with a fully connected home where everything talks to each other - as many cocooners have.  Of course some of the advanced logic is nice but the tie-in to your security and motion status can really take things to the next level with some good automation rules.

Click to expand...

 
This is an appealing component of Nest integration to me. My understanding is that if you install a bunch of Nest Protects, it works with the Nest Thermostats using the motion sensors on the Protect to more accurately monitor occupancy/away states for the home. I'd like to integrate this into my HA system, so I could monitor that as opposed to adding some motion sensors of my own, and a bunch of rules/logic that will honestly never work as well as what the Nest 'system' is doing. I'm ok with letting their Thermostat hardware 'run' the scheduling, etc.. as well, but I just want it to LINK to my HA system to inform it of things like temp and heat state, as well as let the HA system adjust temps if need be (without having to rely on going into Nest's own app for that).
 
This is how my pool setup integrates and I think it works perfectly. I let the Pentair computer effectively 'run' the pool. Even though my HA can run the pumps and set the schedules, I just leave it up to the Pentair setup. That being said, it keeps the status of everything updated to the HA system, and the HA system can issue commands (so if I want to start the hot tub when I'm on my way home from somewhere, or activate some kind of lighting scene).