New Home Security and Automation Design (Design the perfect system)

We are building a new home so we have the ability to do anything we want in regards to a security system, but we have a few wants/needs.
 
1. Addressable wired contacts (windows, doors, smokes, motions, etc)
2. Automation control with access to lights, garage, doorbell, doorlocks)
3. 4-8 IP cameras with POE that don't break the budget. (Something like a dahua hfw2000 but could be anything)
     a. Planning on using PC based DVR with plenty of storage
4. Going to use the Honeywell WiFi HVAC control
5. Want access via iPhone to all components, but doesn't have to be tied together.
6. Self Install and maintained
7. Use Alarm Relay for monitoring
 
We currently use an Elk M1 with the ISY994 (which I installed) which works well, but you can't use wired addressable contacts with the Elk so that is out of the question. 
 
I have looked at the Honeywell Vplex and the DSC Neo (not much out on this) but I can't seem to figure out which would be better and easier to install. Regarding automation, should we still use the ISY or something else?
 
So many of you on this board seem to be so knowledgable and this is your chance to design your dream system!
 
Thanks,
Winston

Can you explain your use/need for addressable contacts?

The theory of the addressable contacts is that we want to be able to see what location is violated (Left Bedroom Door, Right Porch Door, Back Hall Smoke, Family Room Motion, etc) 
 
I know that we could use wireless as they are more reliable and seem to be pretty secure today, but then we have to worry about batteries. I assume that the wired contacts will be less maintenance over the long term.

TWP said:

The theory of the addressable contacts is that we want to be able to see what location is violated (Left Bedroom Door, Right Porch Door, Back Hall Smoke, Family Room Motion, etc) 

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Couldn't you get that same location information by wiring only one non-addressable contact per zone? 

TWP said:

The theory of the addressable contacts is that we want to be able to see what location is violated (Left Bedroom Door, Right Porch Door, Back Hall Smoke, Family Room Motion, etc) 
 
I know that we could use wireless as they are more reliable and seem to be pretty secure today, but then we have to worry about batteries. I assume that the wired contacts will be less maintenance over the long term.

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This...
 

RAL said:

Couldn't you get that same location information by wiring only one non-addressable contact per zone? 

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You can do this with Elk already. Sure, the M1G only has 16-zones onboard, but you can add multiple XIN's (as needed) to support the number of hardwired zones you have.
 
My [Elk] keypads tell me which zone specifically is violated.

With the Elk, or wiring one non-addressable contact per zone ideas, doesn't this require multiple home-runs to complete? I was looking for contacts in series so that I would not have so many home runs. I believe this is what some of the the DSC and Honeywell systems do with the addressable contacts.

Wiring is cheap in a new home. The addressable contacts are much more expensive aren't they? If I were doing a new home, I'd have home run connections for every window (or 1 for mult. windows within a bedroom), interior door, exterior door, etc. You can't get much more reliable than hardwired connections, not with wireless, no matter how good the wireless sensors are. And the wireless sensors are much more expensive and require routine maintenance with batteries. Yep, I'd hardwire in an instant...hell, I'm doing that a little bit at a time in my current house as I renovate, run speaker/network wire, etc.

Yes, the addressable contacts allow you to create a loop with many contacts on the loop, and still know which specific contact has been tripped.  With non-addressable contacts, you do need a home run for each one.  Or, with the ELK, you could place M1XINs in various locations and have just a handful of homeruns from the XIN back to the M1.
 
The addressable contacts seem like a good solution for a large commercial environment, like an office, that might have hundreds of contacts spread over large distances.  But they seem like overkill to me for a home.
 
One downside I see to the addressable loop vs individual home runs is that any damage to the loop cable could take out all the contacts on the loop.  I think I'd prefer to lose just one contact rather than all of them.

I'm relatively new to this whole low voltage house wiring world but I vote for the home runs for the fact that you would lose the entire loop if there is a fault and the for the fact that home runs are dead easy to troubleshoot. When I do a job I like to think of teh next guy that might have to work on it.
 
Mike.

OK. Let's say I ran home runs for all wires (or at least zones) what system combination would you use? HAI, Elk, ISY, DSC, Honeywell? Again, design the dream system.

Well HAI and Elk are the most supported "automation/integrated" security panel. DSC has some integration with their panels I believe but this is more recent or not as widespread compared to Elk/HAI. ISY is really an addon to Elk or at least that's how I see it.

So out of HAI and Elk, Elk is the cheaper of the two and I would say more supported on the DIY front. It is a little unclear in which direction HAI is going since Leviton bought them. They increased their prices several months ago and there was talk of less DIY support but I don't know what that has meant in reality. Really it comes down to are you going to use some of the builtin HAI functionality like HAI lighting or the HAI music system. If not, then Elk is likely the best choice.

dgage said:

Well HAI and Elk are the most supported "automation/integrated" security panel. DSC has some integration with their panels I believe but this is more recent or not as widespread compared to Elk/HAI. ISY is really an addon to Elk or at least that's how I see it.

So out of HAI and Elk, Elk is the cheaper of the two and I would say more supported on the DIY front. It is a little unclear in which direction HAI is going since Leviton bought them. They increased their prices several months ago and there was talk of less DIY support but I don't know what that has meant in reality. Really it comes down to are you going to use some of the builtin HAI functionality like HAI lighting or the HAI music system. If not, then Elk is likely the best choice.

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Well said.
 
The other thing with HAI is their touchpanels and integration of with their other products (such as the music system, and I believe CCTV).

Hello Winston,
 
I'm in the same boat as you. I'm designing a new home and am just started on the home security & automation component.
 
The field is exceedingly complex - to say that I'm overwhelmed is an understatement.
 
My requirements line-up fairly well with yours. So, I'm very curious on what all components you decide. It will be great if you can document it and share.
 
Thanks. And all the best.

Don't pigeonhole yourself into a panel or technology with addressible. This happened in years back with a bunch of multiplex panels.
 
Wire conventionally and then pick an appropriate panel.

Thank you all for the comments and, DELInstallations, that is a very good point about the concern and lack of ability to change with addressible panels.
 
Sog, my current plan (although this could change as we aren't moving until 18 months from now) is to use Elk and the ISY994i.
 
Since I already have both systems installed on my current house and they are working well with few issues (along with the fact that I know how to program them etc), I think i will stick with them. I would love to see Elk come out with an upgrade to the M1 with more functionality but I am doubtful this will happen. 
 
If you don't already have an Elk and ISY, here are some of the features I like/dislike.
Like:
- Elk seems to be very robust and once setup, is easy to maintain.
- I have few problems with the Elk and the only real issue I have had was that I needed to replace the backup battery after 3 years
- With the ISY, I have recently upgraded to the isy994 from the isy99 and since upgrading, have had no issues at all. Linking with devices and now even passing along the Elk events via the ISY emailing system works perfectly.
 
I think when we build the new house, we will now run the home-runs for each room (connecting windows for an entire room as 1 zone) and have very few (if any) wireless devices. As others on this board have said, wire is cheap and the wired contacts are also very cheap.