Is the ELK 1M Gold long in the tooth?

I've been on the fence about the ELK 1M Gold for a while now, but since it seems Google/Apple/Samsung/etc are getting deep into the home automation business (at least thats the rumors), what are people's thoughts about how older (10 years into the product cycle...) systems such as this will cope with the newer stuff.  Does anyone see some sort of ELEGANT compatibility. I don't like hacks, I prefer elegant solutions with minimal breakout boxes. 
 
<inflammatory comment>Is there still a future for the ELK 1M in the next couple of years? </inflammatory comment>

I just installed an Elk system in my home....I chose long in the tooth over bleeding edge.
 
Mike.

It depends on your definition of an automated system and what you want to accomplish. There are more than enough companies that have "an app for that" - the companies you mentioned included. The question becomes, how much [real] integration do you want? Do you want a single system/interface to control everything you need or are you OK with having separate apps for each thing?
 
I know a family member who recently had a new deadbolt installed by one of her kids. She can open an app, hold her phone close to the deadbolt, and unlock it. Great! But neither the app or the lock communicate with anything else. It doesn't tie into her security system and isn't automated in any way. Similarly, there are overhead garage doors that have WiFi modules. So you can open their app and open/close your garage door. But these are being sold as stand-alone systems that have no 3rd party integration with 'systems'.
 
When I arm my security system (Elk) it checks to see if my front door is locked. If it's not locked, it then checks to see if the front door is secured (closed) then locks the front door. It does the same thing for my garage door. This is a single interface, and a single button press that does this. If someone rings my doorbell, and my TV is turned on, the input will change instantly and display my CCTV view of the front door camera - no extra app to load - it happens automatically.

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Another point that I'd like to make is that when it comes right down to choosing a system and designing an installation you are best off to diagram exactly what the system is going to do or as close as you can get with your existing knowledge and within your budget. Then shop for the equipment that you can afford to get you to that end. It's best to draw the finish product first and then go to  work putting the pieces together. 
 
If you try to choose a system based on what's all available in the world instead of what you need to do the job at hand  then you'll spend a lot of time chasing a moving target. There will always be someone to tell you that this one is better than that one and there will always be a newer version to come out at some point down the road. Product comparison is a good thing to do but do it after you put some constraints on your design.
 
After reading around the net for a couple of months I came to the conclusion that the Elk and the HAI/Leviton both were capable of filling all of my needs for security and automation and I decided on the Elk.. There may be other  systems out there that are just as good or better but I liked the fact that the control was basic and no frills. It seemed to be the most configurable system that I have found and their online presence is excellent. I've found their manuals and video tutorials very helpful.
 
Mike.

+1 Mike & drvnbysound

There's no doubt that this market is getting exciting with everyone trying to get onboard.  The problem today is that most of them are competing against each other instead of working together - leaving you with more disjointed options and still few good all-encompassing solutions.
 
Yeah the Elk and HAI are old - but they're tried and true and they've been doing their best to keep up by supporting some of the newer big players.
 
Somewhere down the line there should be some standardization that occurs through all this and whatever automation appliance evolves out of this should support the Elk and HAI as well as GE and DSC and others most likely.  Who knows how many more years that'll take... until then I already have all the automation features in place that these companies are trying to figure out how to bring to the masses, and I've had them for 5+ years.

Work2Play said:

There's no doubt that this market is getting exciting with everyone trying to get onboard.  The problem today is that most of them are competing against each other instead of working together - leaving you with more disjointed options and still few good all-encompassing solutions.
 
Yeah the Elk and HAI are old - but they're tried and true and they've been doing their best to keep up by supporting some of the newer big players.
 
Somewhere down the line there should be some standardization that occurs through all this and whatever automation appliance evolves out of this should support the Elk and HAI as well as GE and DSC and others most likely.  Who knows how many more years that'll take... until then I already have all the automation features in place that these companies are trying to figure out how to bring to the masses, and I've had them for 5+ years.

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[SIZE=11.818181991577148px]"whatever automation appliance evolves out of this should support the Elk and HAI as well as GE and DSC and others most likely."[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=11.818181991577148px]I think that a company that ignores Elk,GE, Leviton and DSC are making a big mistake. There are lots of installs out there.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=11.818181991577148px]Mike..[/SIZE]

I guess the reason I stress elegance is that the ELK + ISY994 seems like a hack. There is a definite overlap of capability, so do they play well? The ISY994 seems to be the easiest way to add additional functionality to the ELK M1G, but each seem to have their automation controllers. When I eventually add an ISY994 (for ZWave integration), will the ISY994 now be me automation controller obsoleteing my ELK except for security duties? Do they talk back and forth? IE, will the ISY note that a light switch was turned on, and pass that info to the ELK?
 
I've googled around and have yet to see a good explanation of how these two systems interact. 
 
I'm on the record in many places saying that relying a third party server for your automation/security system is the DUMBEST THING YOU CAN DO.  So the current crop of 'connected' switches scare the hell out of me.

I have an Elk with Zwave and I don't have an ISY - I use the M1XSLZW and VRC0P-1LW. All my automation is done natively with the Elk. I haven't found it to limit anything that I want to do thus far. I've had this setup for approximately 2 years.

I do think the M1 has become a somewhat dated (relative) platform and the innovations and new additions have been slow or non-existant. Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of their RF devices of their own brewing as most M1's I have in the wild are almost entirely hardwired.

I do think they should add an additional fire module for 2 wire (a la Radionics/Bosch) or support addressible fire alarm (though the need for sounder bases would essentially negate the cabling advantages). I'd like to also see an integral NIC on the unit....hell DMP has had these for years on sub-premium panels as an easy option.

Some of the basic quirks should be looked into...like the DST issue or the strobing keypad. Maybe a couple of configurable zones (based on 3 or 4 state wiring) would also come in handy. Maybe a small tweak of the rules engine.
 
Overall, I'm still reasonably content with picking it as the mid-high platform for the bulk of my installs over HAI. I would like the option to have a tiered RF receiver. While it's nice to buy one that can do the maximum number of zones, it was also attractive to purchase the NX-548 for half the cost to add a couple of zones or keyfobs.

nethed said:

I've been on the fence about the ELK 1M Gold for a while now, but since it seems Google/Apple/Samsung/etc are getting deep into the home automation business (at least thats the rumors), what are people's thoughts about how older (10 years into the product cycle...) systems such as this will cope with the newer stuff.  Does anyone see some sort of ELEGANT compatibility. I don't like hacks, I prefer elegant solutions with minimal breakout boxes. 
 
<inflammatory comment>Is there still a future for the ELK 1M in the next couple of years? </inflammatory comment>

Click to expand...

nethed,

One thing I learned and have repeated multiple times...home automation is not about technology, its about reliability. Security even more so. I have a technical background and my original thoughts of all of the cool things on Engadget and Kickstarter etc...have no place in the real home automation world...at least at this point. I think it will take 2-3 years for the Internet of Things to take off and then a few more years after that to become entrenched in the home automation/security world.

Specifically to the Elk, or really any home automation, it is just like buying a computer or tablet today. You know as soon as you buy it that it will be pretty much obsolete. But at some point you need to jump in and accept that you are buying in at a point in time to start the clock of your enjoyment as well as when the device will need to be replaced. In the case of the Elk, I think it can be very valuable for the next 5-10 years and likely longer. And the sooner you purchase it, the sooner you'll get to enjoy its many capabilities as well as the experience to know what you REALLY want your system to do in the future.

nethed said:

I've been on the fence about the ELK 1M Gold for a while now, but since it seems Google/Apple/Samsung/etc are getting deep into the home automation business (at least thats the rumors), what are people's thoughts about how older (10 years into the product cycle...) systems such as this will cope with the newer stuff.  Does anyone see some sort of ELEGANT compatibility. I don't like hacks, I prefer elegant solutions with minimal breakout boxes. 
 
<inflammatory comment>Is there still a future for the ELK 1M in the next couple of years? </inflammatory comment>

Click to expand...

By the way, I have to laugh...I'm sure I had a post asking the same exact question about a year ago.

I don't personally use an ISY but here's my basic understanding from years of keeping up here... The ISY knows what goes on in elk-land.  It will see as the elk arms/disarms, triggers tasks and outputs and inputs and all those things, so you can in turn write rules  within the ISY to do what you want based on that... so the ISY can see that the house was armed away and the countdown timer is expired so it'll turn off the lights - and so forth.  As far as the ISY getting communication back to the Elk - that'd happen by the ISY triggering tasks or outputs or similar on the Elk - if you want Elk programming to act on something that happened within the ISY; but I think once you have the ISY tied in it does all the automation for whatever it controls; if anything some simpler security-minded pieces stay within the Elk.  Or as many of us say, the Elk handles the "Mission Critical" automation while the 3rd party controllers handle all the "nice to have" stuff.
 
I personally run Elve - although I do so little with it... And I use UPB.  I gave Elve control of the UPB and left another PIM on the Elk so ultimately both were controllers - and I found a positive benefit... Elve constantly inquires for status updates, and the Elk hears those status updates - so my statuses on the Elk stay valid when they otherwise wouldn't.  Of course I don't know how all that would translate to Z-Wave and an ISY - but in my case I like having both systems able to talk to the lights.

Unless you have very sophisticated use-cases along with multiple household triggers (i.e., like doorbell/camera/TV use-case), I see little need for external rules controller. If you take a look at the ElkRP language, it’s fairly robust ladder logic language. With only 26% memory used, I believe typical setup HA for controlling lights, thermostat, fans, and locks is possible using Elk exclusively.
 
From my understanding, the ISY is only required because SmartHome did not invest in building a robust installation program similar to what is provided by UPB. UDI spent a ton of energy and money making Insteon easily consumable. UDI decided for economic reasons to add a controller/rules language. I suspect that once the ISY network is properly configured, the ISY rules language is not required.
 
Instead of thinking about Elk/ISY integration as a hack, understand every lighting technology requires a hardware installation/setup program.