Stone house and solar backup

So, looking to do a job in an old stone house with exterior and some interior walls 24+ inches thick of stone. There are multiple buildings about 50-100 feet at most apart. Looking to install an elk M1g. I thought wireless might be best due to distances between buildings. I have not yet dealt with wireless set up. Is this a possibility? I thought about installing main unit at a high location not impeded by stone.
 
Second, due to being remote location, it would be easy for someone to cut power, then come back 8 hours later and system would be down. Wanted to do a solar backup. Has anyone done a solar backup so that system can essentially run completely off the grid?
 
Thanks.
 
 

What are you using for central office monitoring or notifications?  Solar power backup won't do you any good if there's no way to trigger an alarm.  In this case, maybe you want to actually trigger an alarm if the power is off long enough.  Or if you can detect that power to the panel is down, but not to other buildings.

RF is going to have issues with the stone and construction details, for sure.

It seems to me if they're enterprising enough to be cutting power, the solar panels would be the SECOND thing they'd immediately disconnect.  Or perhaps just throw a tarp over it.  
 
If there's power between the buildings now, what about phones?  Repurpose a dry pair for alarm is one idea.  Otherwise, time to dig along that existing wire...

wkearney99 said:

It seems to me if they're enterprising enough to be cutting power, the solar panels would be the SECOND thing they'd immediately disconnect.  Or perhaps just throw a tarp over it.  
 
If there's power between the buildings now, what about phones?  Repurpose a dry pair for alarm is one idea.  Otherwise, time to dig along that existing wire...

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More like steal the panels....you'd be amazed, but that's the next "copper" type theft item that appears to be ramping up now that (it seems) more solar installs are taking place. We're getting more calls to install vibration and fence detection to protect them like we've been doing for substations and the like.
 
In the case of the OP, assuming an off the grid without using inverters and back, would be to run via DC and then size a panel backup battery appropriately, then use a RIB or similar to cut off the main feed when it drops below voltage or an external monitoring output causes the relay to disconnect. The largest item is to prevent your backup batteries from backfeeding into a larger array if there could be a concern that they could be compromised. I would go the "belt and suspenders" route in regards to powering the panel and not directly via a single source.

Re: The solar panel theft - I spend a decent amount of time on another forum for wireless ISP's and they talk about that a lot - they'll actually break the solar panels at times because that lowers their resale value - and even though it diminishes output it makes them less likely to be stolen.  What a world!
 
Keep in mind that although the M1 has wireless transmitters available, you can't go wireless for speakers or keypads or input/output accessories.  I'd want at least a Cat5 to each building so you can extend the databus - then you can put in multiple wireless receivers if needed.

Personnel opinion. I would run at least 18 awg or better depending on distance between buildings and protect it with a Ditek or similar surge suppressor. I have seen voltage drops cause flakiness.

Personally, I prefer to have other personnel digging the trenches....  (nit... picked...)  
 
It starts to get complicated when you're slinging signal wires between buildings, if that's even an option.  Especially when it comes to dealing with the potential for lightning strikes and such.  If you're going to use copper you'll need to make sure you factor voltage drop over distance.  The longer you go, the lower (thicker) the gauge the wire will need to be.

50-100' between buildings is really nothing and in a multi-building layout, until you start getting into the hundreds of feet it's really not an issue. I would, however, size the cabling to be larger than a category cable (23-24 AWG) and pull a 8-10 conductor 22 before recommending category cabling.
 
As long as you can keep the M1's bus at or above 12V, it's not an issue or necessary to oversize the conductors.
 
What IS important is not daisy chaining the power feeding any remote buildings and related devices.

DELInstallations said:

What IS important is not daisy chaining the power feeding any remote buildings and related devices.

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Del, can you give more info on daisy chaining power feed?
 
I was hoping there might be an off the shelf item for alarm systems; kind of surprised there is not. Not too worried about tampering with the panels. I think i could find a location to place it that it would be sufficiently out of the way. Plus, I don't think someone is going to steal one solar panel for alarm system. If it was a whole array for powering house, different story.
 
Lightning strikes have never been a problem. Doesn't mean it could not happen, but then you deal with it then i guess. There is a power pole in the middle of the field that i would imagine lightning would strike first.
 
So I was hoping to place a Transmitter at a high, accessible location, behind a wood wall (in a barn for example) with control, then some wireless sensors near some of the openings in stone structures. Would that not work?

You are asking for issues with the construction details given, period. Don't count on RF functioning reliabliy with the construction details. This comes from 20 years in the field with multiple instances where I have seen others attempt to push RF devices to their limits and have them fail or be unreliable.
 
As far as the M1 goes, depending on how you are intending on wiring the data bus and any peripherals, that would determine the power draw and if any oversized conductors or power considerations need to be considered.
 
I would rethink your application before tossing good money and equipment on poor system design (sorry it sounds that way, but it's factual).

newalarm said:

Del, can you give more info on daisy chaining power feed?
 
I was hoping there might be an off the shelf item for alarm systems; kind of surprised there is not. Not too worried about tampering with the panels. I think i could find a location to place it that it would be sufficiently out of the way. Plus, I don't think someone is going to steal one solar panel for alarm system. If it was a whole array for powering house, different story.
 
Lightning strikes have never been a problem. Doesn't mean it could not happen, but then you deal with it then i guess. There is a power pole in the middle of the field that i would imagine lightning would strike first.
 
So I was hoping to place a Transmitter at a high, accessible location, behind a wood wall (in a barn for example) with control, then some wireless sensors near some of the openings in stone structures. Would that not work?

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Steeling panels is not that easy..An added security or alarm system will surely serve the cause..

Grid power and alkaline batteries or lead-acid would be much cheaper and more reliable. Forget the PV panels. 30 days of no sun will finish any PV installation. It has mine, a few times now.

LarrylLix said:

Grid power and alkaline batteries or lead-acid would be much cheaper and more reliable. Forget the solar kits. 30 days of no sun will finish any PV installation. It has mine, a few times now.

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Well I do agree with you.. No sun no output..

A few years back helping a friend with a new home on a farm; the issue of either using wireless or cabling in a trench did come up between houses.  We went to just trenching between two homes and did go to just a bit less than 100 meters (300 feet).  It is working fine today.  Its only one trench between two buildings.