Elk power consumption

mikefamig

Senior Member
I have a question about calculating the power consumption in an M1 system and specifically the M1XIN and M1OVR adapters.
 
I understand that I need to add up the load of each device attached to an M1XIN (motion detector, fire detector,  etc) but does the M1XIN itself add to the load?
 
For instance:
The M1OVR manual state the Current Draw: 65 mA Nom., 330 mA Max. What does that spec mean? Is it the sum of teh devices attached to it or is the in addition to the devices attached to it?
 
Do these adapters add to the overall load on the power supply?
 
Mike.
 
 
I believe the range for the M1XOVR is based on the number of relays you have energized at one time.   So I take it to mean 65mA base and up to 330mA if you have all 8 relays energized.
 
wuench said:
I believe the range for the M1XOVR is based on the number of relays you have energized at one time.   So I take it to mean 65mA base and up to 330mA if you have all 8 relays energized.
That makes sense that a relay would use power in order to switch so the board does add to the overall load. In hindsight it's kind of a dumb question because anything that conducts current adds something to the load. I just couldn't see it at first sight. Maybe I shouldn't post questions until after my first coffee.
 
I just looked at the manual for the xin and it specs 65ma. This is very little current so it must also be what the board itself adds to the load as opposed to the sum of devices that it is capable of carrying.
 
Mike.
 
Inputs do not add any loading on an XIN.
 
When doing calcs on a burg system you must figure the worst case scenario with everything running and in alarm condition and then add 20%.
 
DELInstallations said:
Inputs do not add any loading on an XIN.
 
When doing calcs on a burg system you must figure the worst case scenario with everything running and in alarm condition and then add 20%.
A 20% cushion sounds like a good idea. I downloaded from Elk an excel spreadsheet that made easy work of the calcs. It lists all of their devices and you just fill out the number of each device in your system and it does the arithmetic for you.
 
http://www.elkproducts.com/Owner_support_tools.html
 
Mike.
 
DELInstallations-
 
I plan to move the p212s and it's battery into the house. It will still power the garage and maybe pick up some of the load in the house. This will solve the freezing problem.
 
Is it possible to have both the control and the p212s use the same backup battery? I see a problem with the fact that they both have battery tender type chargers onboard. Is there a way to I defeat one of the chargers? If I could have just one battery it would remove the problem of the p212s battery failing before the control battery in an outage. I understand that it would shorten the backup time but it might be ok with an 18ah battery.
 
Mike.
 
DELInstallations said:
No sharing.
 
Size the system batteries appropriately.
OK I get that but I initially put an 18ah battery on the p212s and the power supply failed. If you recall we considered the fact that it may have been the larger battery over-taxing teh battery charger that caused the failure. How do I size the batteries properly?
 
Mike.
 
DELInstallations
 
BTW - Let me know if you're ever working in the area of Blackies Hot Dog and I'd be glad to buy lunch. it would be good to put a face to the sudo name.
 
Mike.
 
The limiting size for the standby is going to be the maximum size the 212S supports if that is going to be a system component...that will give you the maximum size battery/standby the M1 is going to have. Remember, the aH of the battery is not a pure representation because the system(s) don't allow you to drain a battery to 0V and they shut down in the 10.5-11V range typically.
 
If you need a longer standby than the 212S can provide with the maximum battery size, then I'd look at a different unit and scrap the 212S.
 
There's ways to get around it and fake the 212S's charging/battery circuit out but definately not something I'd do to a system in service...bench system is a different scenario.
 
Plug your system into Elk's spreadsheet and it should give you a very good baseline to start.
 
DELInstallations said:
The limiting size for the standby is going to be the maximum size the 212S supports if that is going to be a system component...that will give you the maximum size battery/standby the M1 is going to have. Remember, the aH of the battery is not a pure representation because the system(s) don't allow you to drain a battery to 0V and they shut down in the 10.5-11V range typically.
 
If you need a longer standby than the 212S can provide with the maximum battery size, then I'd look at a different unit and scrap the 212S.
 
There's ways to get around it and fake the 212S's charging/battery circuit out but definately not something I'd do to a system in service...bench system is a different scenario.
 
Plug your system into Elk's spreadsheet and it should give you a very good baseline to start.
I understand but my concern is not so much the standby time as it is the possibility of the p212s running out of battery before the control. How can you ensure that this will not happen? This is the reason that I attached an 18ah battery to the p212s in the first place but if you recall we suspected that that caused the ps charging system problems. The documentation for the p212s states that 12ah is the maximum battery size.
 
Is it possible to avoid this with rules? Can the system detect that the p212s battery is going low and disarm the system before it false alarms or maybe even shut the system down?
 
Mike.
 
EDIT
 
I just had a thought.....could I just bypass all zones when a low battery is detected on teh p212s? Would this work to avoid problems with the p212s battery failing before the control battery?
 
I wouldn't recommend that...think about what happens at the 3-5 year mark on the M1 when the battery fails a self test (in the middle of the night) or as Murphy would dictate, while you are away on vacation.
 
If you put the listed 12 aH on the 212, that'll get you a hypothetical 6 hours fully loaded standby.
 
Lets go around this logically, what sort of standby is the M1 running?
 
There's other ways to skin the cat but you're going to need a RIB, another battery and PS/charger...
 
Have you used the power calc that Elk provides for battery sizing and standby calcs?
 
DELInstallations said:
I wouldn't recommend that...think about what happens at the 3-5 year mark on the M1 when the battery fails a self test (in the middle of the night) or as Murphy would dictate, while you are away on vacation.
 
If you put the listed 12 aH on the 212, that'll get you a hypothetical 6 hours fully loaded standby.
 
Lets go around this logically, what sort of standby is the M1 running?
 
There's other ways to skin the cat but you're going to need a RIB, another battery and PS/charger...
 
Have you used the power calc that Elk provides for battery sizing and standby calcs?
The spreadsheet does calculate the standby times and I did plug in the numbers but I forget the the results. I have to head out in about 15 minutes so I'll get back with the numbers later or tomorrow.
 
So if I understand what you are saying I should run the numbers and make sure that the p212s has a longer standby time than the control, but how much longer must it be to be safe?
 
Also what is a RIB?
 
Mike.
 
In all the cases I've done, the M1 typically would run a single 7aH battery and the aux would be 2 of them just due to sheer laziness because the batteries are common commodity items. If the batteries are oversized, then I'd probably look around 10% + the derating factor because I'd be putting them out in the field, most likely unheated.
 
In your case, you'd need to decide what is the real design criteria, either a long standby on the M1, which the 212 is a design flaw, or you go with a reasonable standby on the 212 but under the limit in battery size and then size the M1 off that standby time and then factor in the panel powering down before the 212.
 
RIB's:
http://www.functionaldevices.com/building-automation/relays.php
 
If you can't do it with a RIB, it probably can't be done.
 
DELInstallations said:
I wouldn't recommend that...think about what happens at the 3-5 year mark on the M1 when the battery fails a self test (in the middle of the night) or as Murphy would dictate, while you are away on vacation.
 
I like the idea of bypassing all zones and effectively shutting the system down when the 212 battery is detected low.  I could just have it send me an email/text and then bypass everything.
 
I  would rather have the system shut down like that than have a false alarm and the system is pretty much going to crash soon on it's own if you don't shut it down yourself. I wish that I could just power the whole thing down from rules. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't you out of business at that point no matter what you do?
 
Mike.
 
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