Using sensors from an old Brinks wired system?

Hello all! I've just registered here, you wouldn't believe how hard it is to find an active forum that deals with home security. I recently moved in to a 2-story house that is wired for a Brinks home security alarm (installed 1996, house built 1995). Front, Back, and the garage door leading in to the house have sensors, and I'm pretty sure looking at the zone card that the main windows are included as well, but I haven't checked those specifically yet.
 
I've gotten so many different answers to this question and I'm hoping to get some good advice. Can I use these sensors at all with a new system? I'm assuming that I have to buy a new keypad as well as a new control panel for everything. I was looking at Honeywell solutions, including the Vista20P Ademco panel.
 
I'm also not sure, but I've heard it's common, that my fire alarm is wired in to the panel.
 
Other than that, I really don't know what would need to be done. I don't want to call ADT and sign up with them, I'd rather have a "DIY" fix making use of what I already have wired in, and be able to choose my own monitoring service, and what I would have to consider if I wanted to include fire/co2 and, possibly, digital self monitoring in addition to pro monitoring.
 
Any suggestions or comments or "hey, you're doing it wrong!" comments are appreciated relating to anything I've posted! Just looking for some solid advice to get me going in the right direction!
 
Thanks!

I'm going through the same thing as you. 
 
First, you have to determine if your house was pre-wired for a security system. Yes, i know you had one, but the question is, did Brinks do the actual wiring, or did the builder do the wiring, and Brinks used it?  My house WAS prewired, meaning all the doors and windows were wired, but the ADT system added just used some of these wires. 
 
In any case, it best to get rid of the panel and consoles, but use the wires that are there. if you need widows and doors NOT wired, its a million times easier to add wireless sensors.  In fact, you could go all wireless, but its generally a bit more expensive for wireless than wired, but labor is much less.
 
ELK and HAI/Leviton are the two main home controllers that are alarms as well.  The Admco Vista20P are good basic alarm only systems.  For me, if you ar5e doing all this work, I'd spend a bit more for a full home automation capable system while your at it, but it is up to you.
 
O.K. back to the wires. Yes, the wires will work, as will the door and window sensors, BUT there is this thing called the End-of-Line (EOL) resistor that varies in value from one system to another.  The CORRECT way to install these resistors is at the sensor itself, but almost none of the cheap systems like Brinks do that. Instead they are sometimes installed in the panel.  If that is the case, they are easy to replace. If they are installed at the sensor, they are harder to replace, but their are workarounds. 
 
So yes, using the existing wires is possible, but even better is if your home was pre-wired from the start.

I'll have to look in to the EoLR (is that right? I've seen it a few times around here) and what the story is inside my panel. I have no idea whether or not the house was pre-wired or not, though. I just know that right now, it's all wired. I was under the impression there wasn't much a difference, but that this would make things easier. I know wireless is convenient but then you can see all the sensors, and I would rather take advantage of what's there wired in now because it's all hidden!
 
Good note on the panel being alarm only. Do you have any specific suggestions that would work from Elk or HAI that would enable automation down the road? What is your stance on getting a cell communicator vs. keeping land-line monitoring? Are there specific keypads I need to consider with these panels?

Each brand of alarm panel has its own compatible keypads.  In general, you can't mix a keypad from one brand with another brand of panel.
 
If you have a POTS land-line, that is the most reliable way to go, in my opinion.  Cellular makes a good backup.  If you really insist on not having a land-line, I would go with cellular as the next best alternative, rather than using VoIP or an internet based solution, which can be less reliable.  Though you'll find many people here who use the internet to communicate with their monitoring station and are satisfied.  For me, if the internet fails just 0.1% of the time, that's not good enough if it happens to be when my alarm goes off.

Here I helped a neighbor upgrade her alarm panel and only kept the wires.  The sensors were kind of functioning but all painted over and a few didn't work just right.  Guesstimate was maybe the original alarm / wiring was some 20 plus years old.
 
The alarm panel zones covered a few devices with EOLs such that I tested all of the wiring first then replaced all of the sensors.
 
She had switched over to CC VOIP such that I rewired her panel to use the VOIP and it worked for her. 
 
I did tell her my preferences relating to use of copper, wireless and VOIP.
 

Do you have any specific suggestions that would work from Elk or HAI that would enable automation down the road?

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I utilize a Leviton HAI OPII combo panel(s).  The Elk is similiar (just a bit bigger).  A network connection / cable to the future panel will help.  Utilize both copper and internet here.
 
I utilize UPB, X10 and Z-Wave with my panel.  The light switches are all UPB.

Pete, I wish I had a neighbor like you! Might make the process a whole lot easier, ha!

Just go slow and you will not have any issues.  I used a VOM to check the devices and EOLs.  The old home was prewired by the contractor as part of the contruction deal.  The prewire was done very well.  I called the alarm company for the installation of the alarm and the company wanted close to $6000.00; which I thought was a bit excessive.  I was able to get the OPIl and much more.  It was just time consuming to do.
 
BTW welcome to the Cocoontect forum.

The EOL resistors work like this.  Lets say the EOL resister in 1000 ohms. The value doesn't matter to much here.  So at the sensor side, the 1000 ohms resistor is in series with the magnet switch.  When a window/door is closed, the sensor is closed/0 ohms/shorted.  What the alarm panel "sees" is 1000 ohms because the resistor adds resistance.
 
So why add the 1000 ohms?  Because if the wires going to a sensor short somewhere, and I have had this if wires are pinched together, then the alarm can display a "wiring fault" indicating a problem.  If there was no 1000 ohm resistor, the alarm would only "see" an open or closed. So the resistor allows the panel to check your wiring basically.
 
No, two problems. First, it seems every company seems to use a different EOL value, which makes changing a panel a challenge.  Second, most alarm companies, attempting to save time, install the EOL resistor in the panel, where they provide no wiring protection at all, but some panels require them.
 
Now why is prewire different from Brinks? BIG DIFFERENCE. Are ALL your wires and doors wired?  If yes, in a two story house, I can guarantee Brinks didn't do this. If you only have sensors on some doors and one motion detector, that was Brinks. When you have it prewired, they usually wire for several consoles, all windows, all doors, power, sirens, etc.  ADP only added one console, but using a wire tracer I found two more the builder added with the prewire. 
 
A real pre-wired home is not perfect but MUCH better than a Brinks wire. You simply can't wire completely after the fact.

Here's a shot of my panel - does it look like the EoLRs are present in there? I'm not sure what I'm looking for yet. Also, it looks like all my windows and doors are wired, and we have no motion detectors that I can see. This indicates our home was pre-wired. It's all located right at my electrical panel.
 
As far is the Obi2 that you guys have, that is WAY out of my budget for this. Originally I had seen the Vista20P and a simple Honeywell keypad on Amazon for $110, and was thinking that sounded like a good deal. I doubt my thermostat is hooked in, and I know I'm not going to have lights or locks ever automated. I suppose looking at a different panel that allowed for wireless expansion in case I wanted to add some features over time would be a good idea, but the Obi2 at $1200 is just not something I can consider at this moment.

The HAI OPII is the top version. Others like the Omni LTE do everything you would need for about $450.  But keep in mind,  with ANY system, even Ademco, you still need to buy many things. New batteries, sirens, consoles, motion sensors, smoke alarms, etc.  Scope out the total price before you start so your not surprised. It adds up quickly.  Brinks and ADT install a system for cheap, but they make it up with a high monthly monitoring charge and several year contract. So your going to pay one way or another. 
 
The number of unused wires indicates it was prewired.  You say "all your windows and doors are wired" but I only see 6 or 7 zone wires.  Do you have a REALLY small house with only 4 windows and 2 doors?  Otherwise, where are the sensor wires? 

I should take a pic of the zone sheet, maybe I can post that later.
 
We have two windows that are in one zone, two windows in another zone, three doors (with two in their own zone I think), and another window in a zone. It's a 2-story, and only the first level is accounted for here. Again, it might make more sense once I get a hold of sheet that lists everything out on the keypad.
 
I know it's going to be more expensive than just the $100 for the panel/keypad, that's not an issue. As far as buying equipment outright and saving on monitoring, it's the same thing I do with my cell phones, go off-contract! I was just balking at the high cost of just the panel! I do have the "wife effect" in play here too, so I'm trying to stay thrifty where I can, and still get what I need, if that makes sense.

Cavi said:

Here's a shot of my panel - does it look like the EoLRs are present in there? I'm not sure what I'm looking for yet.

Click to expand...

 
It doesn't look like you have any EOLRs in the panel itself.  If they were present, you would see them connected to the terminal strip at the bottom of the board.
 
There was a previous discussion about Brinks panels and EOLRs in this thread.  The picture of the board that was posted there looks very similar to yours, though not identical.  Might have been a newer/older version.   In that case, the owner did find 4.7K EOLRs were installed at the contacts, like they should be.
 
The easiest thing to do is to disconnect the wires for the zones one by one and use a multimeter to measure the resistance between the two wires in the cable.  If you get a reading of more than a few ohms when the contact is closed, that's a good indication that you have EOLRs.

I'm going to see if I can get my hands on a multi-meter so I can measure the EoLRs. Will this value dictate which panels I'll be able to buy? I'm still looking at Honeywell/Ademco options, and found this starter kit as a viable option. The ones you guys are suggesting are just really expensive. I've also looked at options from Elk since it seems popular on this board. I've decided I want to go cellular so I don't have to sign up for POTS. I've also found that my basement window is covered in my current system, but that sensor is wireless.
 
I've also talked to a couple of companies about coming out, and by the time you add cellular and total connect, the monthly fee is over $40! Crazy. If I can manage this for half that, I'll be a happy camper.
 
Is there any way of finding out from the pic I posted of my panel whether it's DSC or Honeywell manufactured? I've heard those two used commonly, and if it's honeywell, that might indicate the sensors would play nicer with the stuff I'm looking at.

It is likely that your system doesn't even use EOL resistors. If it was installed by Brinks or ADT, they don't spend extra time installing them.  Even if you have them, there are lots of ways to modify them so any panel will work.
 
If you own the system, there are many companies that can monitor your alarm for not much. Like NextAlarm offers monitoring over the Internet for maybe $15/month.  Cellular is great but it will always be expensive.  Even if you do require a voice phone line, companies like Ooma can give you that for under $4 month. 

That's a good shout, for internet monitoring. I would only have to ensure the panel has IP for that, right? Would lower up front cost too, not having to buy the cellular transmitter. I'm assuming I would still have access to things like "total connect" and similar services over IP?