omni iie with upb. help please.

Hello all, I am new to the forum, but have learned a lot from reading the threads.
 
I have an Omni iie with FW 3.14a and I am experimenting with installing hai upb switches.
I have read threads off the forum and it has gotten me this far...but I am just unclear on a few things.
 
Where I am now:
1. 4 switches installed.
Breezeway = 1 dimmer and 2 aux.
Courtyard = 1 dimmer
 
2. I configured using dealer PC Access under Units, the following: Rm1 as Breezeway and Rm1-2 as Courtyard.
 
3. Put the dimmer switches in setup and have used the touchscreen to find them.
 
4. I can power them up and down with the touchscreen, but they work intermittently. Sometimes they power on, but then the touchscreen and snaplink then goes to a status of off. I have the UPB status wait time set to 5 and the transit count set to 3. Sometimes they don't power on or off and I have to try again. 
 
5. Under Control of either touchscreen or snaplink,, only the Rm1 of Breezeway shows up, I don't see the Courtyard. But when I turn the breezeway on or off, it affects rm1 (Breezeway) and rm1-2 (Courtyard).
 
So my questions are this...
1. Should I have left Rm1 as a generic name ... say Outdoor Lights and then made the Breezeway Rm1-2 and Courtyard as Rm1-3?
 
2. If the answer to 1 is yes, then when I setup my switches, do I tie a switch to the generic name? or just skip it and tie the switches to Rm1-2 and Rm1-3?
 
3. If I have to refind the switches and pair them with new Rm1, 2, and 3 settings...Do I have to clear/reset them first? How do I do this? It seemed as if once the HAI found a switch and tied it to something like rm1, I could then not replace it. the touchscreen would say None Found if I tried to repeat the process.
 
4. I believe for the intermittent issues I need a phase coupler. I have one coming. My question is, do you think this is the issue? I have a 2 story 4700 square foot home. Is there a way to see the strength of the UPB signals?
 
I just want to say thanks in advance...this forum is great and there are some very knowledgeable people on here.
 
Mike 

It sounds like you need to get the unit ID correct... you hinted at it in question 1.
 
The Omni has a very rigid way it wants UPB devices identified.  Each "room" is allowed up to 7 devices.  The first device in a room should be a room/scene controller.
 
So... Set the breezeway as 1-2, and the Courtyard as 1-3.  Make sure you have a name in Unit 1 (the room itself) such as "Outdoors" or something similar.  While you are at it, make sure the "House Code Format" drop down box says "HAI Lighting Control" for unit ID 001.  Write it all back to the controller.
 
After you have moved the unit programming to the correct unit ID, one at a time place each switch back into setup mode by clicking the top of the switch 5 times.  Then go back to PC access and re-program it just as if it was new.  Repeat for the Courtyard which will now be unit 3 (Room 1-3).  You don't have to clear them out first if you don't want to.
 
The reason you were having problems is that you had a regular dimmer in a "room controller" spot, and the way the HAI panel does status updates and control isn't conducive to straying from that methodology.
 
Get them re-programmed onto the correct unit IDs and I bet everything starts working correctly.

Thanks fot the reply neillt. I did as you described earlier today.

The switches now come on reliably as 1-2 and 1-3. I have just a generic name (outdoor) in 1-1 but no switch assigned. Problem is i cant get them to turn off using the touchscreen or snaplink.

I am wondering if i need a phase coupler....

neilltt,
 
I noticed you wrote...
after setting the IDs right in PCaccess, go to each switch...put it in config mode...and then go back to PC access and reprogram as if new.
 
This is probably a real newbie question...but how do you do that?
I see no option in PC access to pair the switch with the ID.
I have had to do that from the touchscreens.
 
 
 

OK, no worries, here is how you do it:
 
1) Make sure you have written the setup to the controller, and PC Access still shows "Online" In the lower right corner
2) Go to the switch to be programmed and tap the top rocker 5 times quickly.  If you do it right, the light will blink once and the LED on the switchplate will flash
3) Go back to PC access, right click the unit line, and I believe it says "Program HLC Device" or something like that
4) The controller will locate the switch and re-program it
 
If it doesn't work let us know and we will help troubleshoot it.

I only have 1 problem left!
(I found out where the switch programming was in PC Access, it was under the status/control tab. I was under the setup tab.)
 
If I turn on Rm1-2 (Breezeway) by itself,, I can reliably turn it on and off with no issues.
If I turn on Rm1-3 (Courtyard) by itself,  I can reliably turn it on and off with no issues.
 
As soon as both rm1-2 AND rm1-3 are both on at the same time...
It doesn't matter if I do it through rm1 (Exterior Lights) or I individually turn them both on one at a time...
I then can't turn either one off.
I will send the off command to rm1, nothing happens...but the status in the touchscreen says off.
It takes a bit of time and then the status changes back to on on the touchscreen.
I then tried to turn rm1-2 and rm1-3 off individually and the same thing happens.
 
Very strange...any ideas?

Here I utilize spare UPB serial and USB controllers.  (HAI, SA (serial and USB) and PCS today).
 
I use left one in place on a serial to network server on the opposite side of the house furthest away from the OPII UPB serial controller. 
 
I do not utilize it for control of the UPB network rather just for an occasional look see thing.
 
Another UPB PIM is just utilized with the laptop / Upstart to look at signals. 
 
You can just leave the current HAI PIM in place and plug in another one on the same circuit or any circuit and test your stuff (including the HAI connected PIM) using Upstart if you want. 
 
My very first HAI UPB serial PIM was defective many years ago and it caused me some major grief with my initial UPB installation.
 
It's been a few years ago that I removed the UPB phase couplers (HAI, SA and PCS testing at the time)  and installed a UPB repeater which did in fact up my signals between the two phases of electricity in the house.

With a 4700 sq. house, you really should consider a repeater and not a coupler. I like the PCS model, but HAI makes one as well, I think. DON'T use both a repeater and coupler.
 
Next, make sure you realize that PC Access/Panel can only program Leviton/HAI switches. You may want to get other types some day as well, so become familiar with UPStart as well.  With your Leviton/HAI switches program them with PC Access, like your doing, but then look at the programming with UPStart. It will give you some more insight.
 
You can download UPStart from the Leviton web site, but in my experience, their version is old. Download it from Simply Automated instead. They seem to have the latest version, and ANY copy should work with switches from any manufacturer, just use the latest version you find. PCS usually has a recent version as well, since they actually oversee the software, but they make you register, and i don't like that, although they have never sent me SPAM.
 
Oh, and UPStart will show you all the signal levels everywhere. Its a great tool, and FREE.
 
One more thing if you DO use a repeater and not a coupler. From my experience, even though they claim otherwise, Simply Automated switches are not the best choice when you have a repeater. They still sell a mixture of versions, and their older versions especially aren't helped by a repeater. Gen 2 or Gen3 switches from Leviton, or PCS or Web Mountain all work great with a repeater.

lvmikel said:

I only have 1 problem left!
(I found out where the switch programming was in PC Access, it was under the status/control tab. I was under the setup tab.)
 
If I turn on Rm1-2 (Breezeway) by itself,, I can reliably turn it on and off with no issues.
If I turn on Rm1-3 (Courtyard) by itself,  I can reliably turn it on and off with no issues.
 
As soon as both rm1-2 AND rm1-3 are both on at the same time...
It doesn't matter if I do it through rm1 (Exterior Lights) or I individually turn them both on one at a time...
I then can't turn either one off.
I will send the off command to rm1, nothing happens...but the status in the touchscreen says off.
It takes a bit of time and then the status changes back to on on the touchscreen.
I then tried to turn rm1-2 and rm1-3 off individually and the same thing happens.
 
Very strange...any ideas?

Click to expand...

 
To be honest, I saw this exact same problem at a friend's house right after he put in some LED bulbs that didn't support dimming.  He somehow dimmed one to 95% so there was no appreciable light output difference but the LED power supply flooded the power line with an insane amount of noise that effectively jammed the UPB network.  That might be what you have going on here.  Are the bulbs regular incandescent or something else?
 
As others have said, if you get UPStart and the correct PIM cable you can troubleshoot down into the weeds with UPB.  You can download UPStart for free from PCS here: http://www.pcslighting.com/pulseworx/resources

Thanks guys.
 
To answer neillt,
- the courtyard has a single dimmable LED.
- the breezeway has 5 nondimmable CFL's.
- I did go to each switch and put it in non-dimming mode.
HAI tech told me to put the switches in setup by tapping quickly five, and then to tap bottom rocker 3 times quickly.
Does this point to anything?
 
 
I also have the pim to serial 232 cable coming so that I can hook it to my pc and look at noise/signal strength using UpStart.
I also have a hai phase coupler on the way. I have heard it both ways...phase coupler vs repeater. I have a few friends that have 10,000SF homes on a phase coupler with no issues. I will know soon enough when I get the cable to run UPStart and I can see the signal/noise.

@ lvmikel
 
I may have missed it in the discussion above, but I don't see it explicitly stated.
Please confirm you have the rooms set to "HLC" not "UPB" in PCAccess..

Also, as mentioned above, a separate PIM running UPStart is nearly essential to troubleshooting.
I use my RS-232 PIM with a USB-Serial converter cable and it works great.
 
I think I have an extra PIM I'd could let you have for a good price, IM me if interested. 

Desert-aip, yes i have rm1 set to HLC in PC Access.

And just crious....can't i just unplug the pim and move it around to test signal/noise? (This is what i was planning on doing.)

Do i really need a second Pim?

Thanks.
Mike

One of the primary testing functions integral to UPStart is the log.
This shows all of the UPB traffic, the links sent, the units transmitting, etc.
To use it you need to have UPStart running with a PIM attached.
 
If you are trying to see what traffic the controller is sending you need a separate PIM so the controller can stay attached and transmit/receive.
Also if you need to read the status of a unit, for instance to determine if a unit is on at 100% or 95% as discussed above, you need UPStart running to do that.
 
You should also examine the setting of each switch in UPStart (you can do that by moving the PIM over) just to verify the settings such as link behavior, rocker functions and status transmit.
 
Having a second PIM is inexpensive and gives you a lot more flexibility.
I have one attached to my desktop computer permanently and another I use with a laptop if I need to do remote programming/troubleshooting..

Ok now that I know you have HLC enabled:
 

lvmikel said:

I only have 1 problem left!
(I found out where the switch programming was in PC Access, it was under the status/control tab. I was under the setup tab.)
 
If I turn on Rm1-2 (Breezeway) by itself,, I can reliably turn it on and off with no issues.
If I turn on Rm1-3 (Courtyard) by itself,  I can reliably turn it on and off with no issues.
 
As soon as both rm1-2 AND rm1-3 are both on at the same time...
It doesn't matter if I do it through rm1 (Exterior Lights) or I individually turn them both on one at a time...
I then can't turn either one off.
I will send the off command to rm1, nothing happens...but the status in the touchscreen says off.
It takes a bit of time and then the status changes back to on on the touchscreen.
I then tried to turn rm1-2 and rm1-3 off individually and the same thing happens.
 
Very strange...any ideas?

Click to expand...

 
The status tracking you describe is working correctly.
When you send an off command, the controller assumes the unit turns off and changes the status in the system immediately.
But it also verifies the result, so after the preset UPB delay, it sends out status requests to all the units in the room and updates the actual status received.
 
This is why you are seeing the status change and go back.  The lights aren't really turning off.
 
Do you know if the two lights are on the same phase or opposite phases?
Does this behavior (not turning off when both are on) happen always or intermittently? 
Does it matter which light was turned on first?
 
I assume you are using room OFF commands.
Verify in Upstart that the Room OFF link is actually programmed to 0%.
Do the switches respond to any of the other Room scenes (A, B, C, D) when both are on?
In HLC, the Room Off command is really a link Activate with the responses programmed to 0%.
Try sending the Room Off Link as a Deactivate command from the UPB link section (use the same link number but send it as an OFF command rather than an ON command).