What is wrong with CQC?

It's always easy for a company to plow ahead, dealing with the problems immediately in front of them, and not look up to figure out what other problems might be further off in the distance. Once in a while, we like to try to get some feedback on what roadblocks might exist to adoption of the product by current non-users, so that we can see about taking care of those issues if that is practical. We can't always, since one product can't be all things to all people. In some cases we might be able to, but we need to know what the roadblocks are first.
 
So I'm posting this poll to get any feedback that might be forthcoming, from folks who have tried it but didn't adopt, who have considered it but never tried it, or who have felt it wasn't worth consideration for some known or perceived reasons. The poll includes some obvious ones, but of course feel free to pick Other and enumerate your thoughts in a response.
 
Any feedback will be welcome.

Personally here my purchase of Homeseer 3 was mostly related to it running in Linux. 
 
Will you ever entertain doing a Linux build of your application?

pete_c said:

Personally here my purchase of Homeseer 3 was mostly related to it running in Linux. 
 
Will you ever entertain doing a Linux build of your application?

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That would be tough. It could be done, at least the back end. More likely, we might take a shot at some point at running it on Windows 10 running on a Pi 2 or something like that. That would only require that we deal with big/little endian issues (which for the most part is already the case, at least as far as can know without actually putting it to the test, i.e. we've always tried to deal with them where they are know.) I'm sure that there are plenty of spots we've missed, but that would be a far shorter row to hoe than a different OS.

Dean Roddey said:

That would be tough. It could be done, at least the back end. More likely, we might take a shot at some point at running it on Windows 10 running on a Pi 2 or something like that. That would only require that we deal with big/little endian issues (which for the most part is already the case, at least as far as can know without actually putting it to the test, i.e. we've always tried to deal with them where they are know.) I'm sure that there are plenty of spots we've missed, but that would be a far shorter row to hoe than a different OS.

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Even with Microsoft officially supporting .NET on Linux?

Good poll Dean.  All the right questions.  Obviously I didn't vote in it since I'm a happy user.  Thinking back, I held off a long time because I thought it was too complicated.  Out of desperation, I tried it and found that it wasn't too complicated at all.  About the same complexity as Elve but probably a bit more stable, at least in my use.  I find it faster than anything else I've tried.
 
I hope the poll gets a lot of response, it would be interesting to see what non-users think.
 
I will register one observation that bugs me constantly.  The lack of X-10 support for the Ti103.  CQC is rather conspicuous with it's absence as probably the only software around that doesn't support it.   The IZZY route is not a good one as it introduces a whole new level of issues just to try to do X-10.

One of these days I am determined to get CQC up and running and actually working in my home rather then just doing experiments on the work bench.
 
There is a great deal about CQC that I like (a very great deal) and it would allow me to do just about anything I can think of.
 
Perhaps it is just my ignorance but there are many things about it that seem to hinder my advancement.
 
The simplest way to explain this would be to sit down with you and walk through setting up an Elan g! system. 
 
Then you could perhaps show me the nearest equivalent approach in CQC.
 
The Elan system has some significant limitations but for the things it does it is very simple to setup and maintain.
 
I will give you just two simple examples.
 
When Elan releases an update/upgrade to the firmware/OS you run one executable on any PC connected to the same network the controller(s) are own. The "updater" finds the controller(s) and updates them. When "clients" (touch screens, pc running the viewer app, etc) next connect they automatically get updated. That's it. Takes maybe 15-20 minutes. All done from the one pc - easily done from the cloud if you have set up, say, port forwarding.
 
Elan has intentionally limited the controls that you use to construct the UI screens. As a result if you need, say, a button you drop one of a number of different kinds. The one you choose depends not on appearance, but function. If you need a larger or smaller button you just resize it.
 
If you need a slider control again you pick one according to function, drop it and size it.
 
Yes CQC gives you total freedom to make the UI look like anything you desire. But in my experience most home owners don't really want a piece of art they just want something simple that works.
 
The limitations of Elan prevent me from doing some things I would like to do but those same limitations to a large degree make it simple to setup and perform the basic kinds of automation: lights, climate control, A/V control, security systems, security cameras.
 
That is very brief I know but I hope it makes some sense.
 
 
And yes someday I am going to be running CQC in my home - I have put in an order with the powers-that-be for more hours in a day - I am hoping to hear from them soon.
 
Thanks for all you have done.

ChrisCicc said:

Even with Microsoft officially supporting .NET on Linux?

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CQC isn't .Net based, it's C++ based. That's one reason it's so light weight and fast, despite being actually a quite large product.

Frederick C. Wilt said:

When Elan releases an update/upgrade to the firmware/OS you run one executable on any PC connected to the same network the controller(s) are own. The "updater" finds the controller(s) and updates them. When "clients" (touch screens, pc running the viewer app, etc) next connect they automatically get updated. That's it. Takes maybe 15-20 minutes. All done from the one pc - easily done from the cloud if you have set up, say, port forwarding.

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Yeh, auto-upgrading of clients is much requested. It's something we'd obviously like to do, but it's quite a chore, not just to initially implement it, but insure it stays working correctly over time. So, so far, other more immediately practical things have been taking precedence. But it's certainly been on the list for a while and doesn't lack for interest, just time and resources at this point.
 

Frederick C. Wilt said:

Elan has intentionally limited the controls that you use to construct the UI screens. As a result if you need, say, a button you drop one of a number of different kinds. The one you choose depends not on appearance, but function. If you need a larger or smaller button you just resize it.
 
If you need a slider control again you pick one according to function, drop it and size it.
 
Yes CQC gives you total freedom to make the UI look like anything you desire. But in my experience most home owners don't really want a piece of art they just want something simple that works.

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We've definitely been working towards this, to provide an easier to use layer over the open ended underlying substrate.  We can't give up the full open ended flexibility, since it's required for higher end systems that require full customization. But we can build an easier to user set of tools that work in terms of it. Have you looked at the latest auto-generation system? That's the primary output of all of this work so far.
 
As long as you have hardware that is supported by our V2 driver architecture, you can set up a pretty nice set of interfaces quickly. We'll continue expanding upon this system over time to add more functionality. A lot of work for this upcoming release has been in V2'ing a lot of key drivers, for this reason.

Hello Dean,
 
I've got so many irons in the fire there is just not enough of me to go around. 
 
I revisit CQC whenever I can and endeavor to be aware of all the changes.
 
I have not yet tried the auto-generation stuff BUT even for manual layout I like the concept of a simpler layer of controls - that would provide the best of both worlds.
 
Are you aware of how Elan ties the UI to the hardware via the "universal function" concept?

I was the "other" vote.  There just isn't enough WOM about it.  I tend to look for informed but preferably unbiased reviews.  The opinion leaders (the ones who live and breath this stuff night and day and who post a lot) don't seem to be using it, and they rarely if ever even mention it.  If it were obviously great, I'd expect they'd be all over it.  Yet, they're not.  Because I don't have unlimited time, that gives me cold feet about even trying it.

NeverDie said:

I was the "other" vote.  There just isn't must WOM about it.  I tend to look for informed but preferably unbiased reviews.  The opinion leaders (the ones who live and breath this stuff night and day and who post a lot) don't seem to be using it, and they rarely if ever even mention it.  If it were obviously great, I'd expect they'd be all over it.  Yet, they're not.  Because I don't have unlimited time, that gives me cold feet about even trying it.

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Who would you consider the opinion leaders? A lot of people around here use it, or are you talking about elsewhere in the industry?

Frederick C. Wilt said:

Hello Dean,
 
I have not yet tried the auto-generation stuff BUT even for manual layout I like the concept of a simpler layer of controls - that would provide the best of both worlds.

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Here is a quick demo video of setting up a system, in case you haven't seen it. Its only about 15 minutes long and sets up a pretty nice system. Doing a real one wouldn't be much more than this.
 
http://www.charmedquark.com/Web2/Downloads/Video%20Tutorials/Version4_6/Tutorials/AutoGen_1.wmv
 
 
 

Frederick C. Wilt said:

Are you aware of how Elan ties the UI to the hardware via the "universal function" concept?

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Not really. Can you 'splain it briefly?

Dean Roddey said:

Here is a quick demo video of setting up a system, in case you haven't seen it. Its only about 15 minutes long and sets up a pretty nice system. Doing a real one wouldn't be much more than this.
 
http://www.charmedquark.com/Web2/Downloads/Video%20Tutorials/Version4_6/Tutorials/AutoGen_1.wmv
 
 
 
 
Not really. Can you 'splain it briefly?

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I will give the video a look later today.
 
Let me give a little thought to the best way to clearly and concisely explain how Elan ties the UI to the hardware. I'll post it later.

Dean Roddey said:

Who would you consider the opinion leaders? A lot of people around here use it, or are you talking about elsewhere in the industry?

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I'd rather not name names, but as with almost any forum anywhere, if you follow it over time, it becomes obvious.  The distinguishing characteristics are high levels of domain accomplishment as well as breadth and especially depth of knowledge.  Some would call them mavens.

NeverDie said:

I'd rather not name names, but as with almost any forum anywhere, if you follow it over time, it becomes obvious.  The distinguishing characteristics are high levels of domain experience as well as breadth and especially depth of knowledge.

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So then, what do you see them using and why do you think that they do? That might be equally as useful.