adding surge protectors in LB connector

I have a general wiring question for anyone willing to put in their two cents. I have a 2" conduit carrying low voltage and data between two buildings and I want to add surge protection on each end of the conduit. The garage end is easy but the house end is a little more difficult.
 
I used a 2" LB connector on the outside wall of the house which is just about large enough to house the DTK LVLP surge protector but it will be a very tight fit. Rather than removing the LB and replacing it with a utility box I am considering attaching a small box to either the removable face of the LB or to the side of the LB with a hole allowing me to run cables between the two enclosures.
 
Does anyone foresee any problem with doing this? There are no high voltage cables in this conduit and never will be, only a 12 volt supply and a couple of cat 5e.
 
Mike.

In cat speak - hack, hack, hack, spit.

 
Its not to code to modify conduit bodies, and there's the fill issue.
Doesn't matter if its low volt, you still have to play by the rules.
 
Use a junction box.
Home Depot has 6x6x4 PVC jboxes for $12.

sda said:

In cat speak - hack, hack, hack, spit.

bill-hack.JPG
 
Its not to code to modify conduit bodies, and there's the fill issue.
Doesn't matter if its low volt, you still have to play by the rules.
 
Use a junction box.
Home Depot has 6x6x4 PVC jboxes for $12.

Click to expand...

 
It's not the cost of the box that bothers me, it's the matter of cutting the LB out and fitting a box to 2" conduit. The conduit is sticking out of the ground by only a foot or so and very close to the building so it won't be easy to replace and I don't know if I can get a box that has a 2" knockout for the conduit.
 
Mike.

Would it be to code if I attached a box to the LB with a short stub of conduit by drilling a hole in the side of the LB?
 
Mike.

I have fitted outdoor PVC boxes here with LV stuff (and grounding) with no issues.   That said 2" is large and I have not used any PVC boxes with 2" plastic knock outs or drilled a hole that big in to one plastic box. 
 
Once you drill or glue with this stuff it isn't going to change.  You can extend 2" PVC with a coupler and glue; it's just a PITA if you have it in a fixed location maybe adjacent to cement or brick.  Last summer helped a friend with a HV/LV endeavor.  We did actually run PVC for HV to a brick wall some 25 feet away for a water fall fountain thing wall.  The PVC was buried then brick paver blocks were put over it before I got to the electrical part.  It was a pita to adjust the 90 adjacent to the wall cuz it was already fixed.  It was a timing thing.
 
I did do much grounding of stuff.  That said I do have outdoor cams today in / on plastic PVC boxes 50 plus feet away from the home.  Ground is via water line ingress to home and one ground stakes outside.
 
@Mike, take a picture of your endeavor....I do understand what you wrote but pictures also help...guessing here...
 
I have one run with ~ 1" PVC running to the house from some few feet away carrying POE cat5e cables going to a plastic PVC box attached to the brick (a real PITA to install).  The box is small though and was only used for the 90 into the brick wall.  The PITA part was running the PVC under a cement sidewalk.
 
2"  PVC is coming up from the ground coming to a PVC box with a water tight lid on it eh?  Here I used much 1" PVC outside for LV stuff.
 
Here most recent experience was with 1.5" PVC in making a mast for my weather station (well plumbing stuff a few years back) which doesn't have anything to do with your endeavour other than its outside.

Here's a pic of the situation.One of the large conduits contains the high voltage line to the garage and the second contains data and 12v supply for the Elk. The small Lb contains power supply to the pool area. It is a tight spot and would require some digging to replace the LB with a box and there are two LB side by side which makes it hard to install a box on one LB without hitting the other LB.
 
Mike

You mentioned some sort of surge / lighting protection device too.  You also mentioned another box for this device.  Are you also putting a ground stake right there or nearby?
 
Is the electrical 220VAC and heavy wire gauge stuff? 
 
Helped a friend (well his widow) a couple of years ago fix some pool house electrical run from the house to the pool house (pump and storage location some 100 feet away).  The LV and HV stuff was separate on both sides (a few feet).  The HV ran underground in to the footing wall of the basement.  Guessing it was 10" - 12" of cement wall which was probably a PITA to drill in to post home build.  There were issues in the pool house electrical with the HV box too close to the ground because he ran out of wire.  (he was an automation/electrical DIYer). 
 
Plastic is easy to work with.
 
All I have here is experience with what I have done.  In the old home build a new garage and driveway.  I ran gas, water, electrical lines adjacent to the new cement driveway at the time along with LV wires in the 1980's  It was only some 75 feet from the house to the detached garage.   There I dug down and drilled my HV / LV stuff into the footing / cement wall adjacent to the fuse panel which was some few feet below ground level.  It was a PITA to do this.  On the garage side just ran the piping through the cement as I put it in before the garage cement was poured.
 
Here in current home built a brick mailbox.  The footing is almost too deep.  That said the LV / HV PVC pipes run into the footing and out the top of the cement base in to the brick structure.  They are adjacent to each other and I have had no issues to date.  (its only two 120VAC HV leads plus a bunch of LV cabling.) The PITA part was running PVC under an existing front walk some 4 feet wide.
 
I did have a bunch of LV stuff running from the old home to the detached garage for an alarm panel and CCTV stuff and TV stuff.  It was a separate run and the ingress to the garage was close.
 
Here built a brick mailbox.  The footing is almost too deep.  That said the LV / HV PVC pipes run into the footing and out the top of the cement base.  They are adjacent to each other and I have had no issues
e but not adjacent to the primary infrastructure stuff.  (IE: I ran pipes through the cement foundation originally before finish of the garage).  I never did have an issue with the set up.

pete_c said:

You mentioned some sort of surge / lighting protection device too.  You also mentioned another box for this device.  Are you also putting a ground stake right there or nearby?

Click to expand...

 
I have a Ditek surge protector that i think will fit inside the LB an dI may just go with that and there is already a ground stake nearby that I can use. The cables are already spliced inside the LB and the Lb is near a ground stake which is why I'd like to put the surge protector there.
 

pete_c said:

Is the electrical 220VAC and heavy wire gauge stuff? 

Click to expand...

 
The high voltage electrical is whatever gauge I used that would carry 240v 100amp service but I forget the gauge of the wire. I do not plan to disturb that and i know that it can not be in the same box as the data and LV.

"drilling a hole in the side of the LB"
That would be the lesser sin of having some wart on the front cover.
 
Its your house, do what you want.
If you ever sell your house, you might get called on it.
If I saw that on the outside, I'd be questioning what's behind the walls too.
 
Seeing your picture, you could put a box to the right of the LB's, put the LVLP in that, and run the patch wires through what I assume is the crawlspace.  
 
Hmm.  When it comes right down to it, you shouldn't be putting that outside anyway.
 
Install Instructions
DTK-LVLP Series
NOTE: This device is intended for indoor use on isolated loop circuits, data, or low voltage telecommunications circuits.
 
 

Last year here added an outdoor surge protector (don't think I needed one anyways) to the 220VAC AC shutoff switch.  I did redo all of the HV wiring in conduit going from the AC HV lines to the wall mounted AC shutdown switch.  It was a pita mostly because I was playing with 8-10 guage wire.   I did do a pictorial here when I did it. 
 
Note too inside I went with a commercial style surge protector which also was a PITA project playing with my fuse panel.  That said though I have followed the basic rules as I was supervised by the local electrical utility when I did my meter removal redo wiring to inside of my house.  The ingress to the house of all of this stuff is above ground. 
 
Near by (a few feet) I have the old telephone ingress going in to the house which has been modded a bit along with the cable box ingress which also has been modded a bit then more PVC boxes for my DIY LV stuff plus the installed Irrigation stuff (wires). 
 
They are all separated and come in to the house above ground. 
 
This is though one entry point location to the home as I have done similiar in other locations.  For the electrical adds I went with all metal box / conduit chipping away brick neatly such that I could flush mount the boxes - it was a real PITA to do this - most of the work was carving the brick such that it would look nice.
 
Its been now 10 years plus and I have had one lightning bolt take out my irrigation controllers which have wires going to the manifold box which is underground sort of.  There is one pair of wires in the box which goes to the water/rain sensor mounted high up adjacent to a gutter on the second floor.  The cluster of wires goes through the house to the opposite side in to the garage irrigation box.  The controllers were connected to the automation computer via one RS-232 cat5e cable.  Lighting only took out the two irrigation controllers and not the Digi box they were connected to.  The wires to the old rain sensor are connected to a wireless switch which I do not really utilize these days.  I have now surge protected everything; that said my controller is now adjacent to the serial controller in the irrigation box.  I don't really know if I did the do right but I tried as best as I could. 
 
Only another lightning bolt would tell me though and geez what are the chances of that happening again.

sda said:

"drilling a hole in the side of the LB"
That would be the lesser sin of having some wart on the front cover.
 
Its your house, do what you want.
If you ever sell your house, you might get called on it.
If I saw that on the outside, I'd be questioning what's behind the walls too.

Click to expand...

 
I like to pose questions like this out here and see what ideas I can get from you guys.
 

sda said:

Seeing your picture, you could put a box to the right of the LB's, put the LVLP in that, and run the patch wires through what I assume is the crawlspace.  
 
Hmm.  When it comes right down to it, you shouldn't be putting that outside anyway.
 
Install Instructions
DTK-LVLP Series
NOTE: This device is intended for indoor use on isolated loop circuits, data, or low voltage telecommunications circuits.

Click to expand...

 
The other side of the wall is the basement. I can put a box in the basement but there are already splices in the LB which is why I thought to put it there.

Pete
 
I won't be adding protection to the HV line. It is already protected at the load center. I am only working with the LV and data.
 
Mike.

I have a new but related question...
 
I understand that the wire from the LVLP to earth has to be shorter than the cable from the LVLP to the device that it is protecting (ELK). But what exactly constitutes earth? Does it have to be a stake in the earth? How about a plumbing pipe or metal BX cable in the house? If you use a BX cable does it have to be added to your length between the LVLP and the stake in the earth outside?
 
What I am asking is whether I can put the LVLP in the Elk enclosure and ground it to an electrical outlet or nearby plumbing? It is approx 30' from the elk enclosure to the load center and a ground stake. I have heard of coiling up wire between the LVLP and the elk but how do I calculate how much wire is needed?
Mike.

I am only working with the LV and data.

Click to expand...

 
I have added LV line autonomous from HV protection inside and outside of home depending on what the LV wires are.
 
Here utilize conduit, copper plumbing, earth stakes for grounding wherever inside or outside if that makes sense?
 
I do have a ground strap (flat stranded bare wire in a 1" conduit)  here in conduit that runs from the water ingress to the fuse panel some 50 feet or so.  That said I also have earth grounding connected to the fuse panel which connects also to the conduit.
 
Well just looked at the "ground strap".  Its just maybe 4 guage stranded copper wire in a 1" metal pipe.  At the end of the conduit there is some metal strap attached to the conduit going to the pipe such that there are two connections to the ingress water pipe.  I can take a picture of it if you like.  The stranded copper wire passes through a pipe clamp to the other side of the water meter which it is also clamped to the water pipe.  The other end (conduit side) goes right in to the fuse panel.  There I would have to remove the cover to take a picture of it.  Much of the LV stuff here gets grounded either to the metal conduit around the house or separately with ground stakes plus this stuff.
 
I over did my 1-wire lightning sensor mounted on the roof here using two conductor shielded cabling passing through a lightning arrestor (connected to a ground stake) before entering the house and getting grounded again.
 
My OPII can gets its ground from the conduit which gets its ground from the fuse panel which has multiple ground connections and its about 2 feet away from it.  An earth electrical ground can be defined / done in a number of ways.  Most important that you have a good ground to the can / panel...thinking its the first sentence in the HAI OPII installation manual.  Adjacent Leviton 42" can also is connected to same ground.
 

sda said:

Hmm.  When it comes right down to it, you shouldn't be putting that outside anyway.
 
Install Instructions
DTK-LVLP Series
NOTE: This device is intended for indoor use on isolated loop circuits, data, or low voltage telecommunications circuits.

Click to expand...

 
I can't agree with you on this. Take a look at this lonk for the LVLP specifications. It is rated for -45deg F to 158deg F and 95% humidity. That should be good in the LB.
 
http://www.ditekcorp.com/Docs/ProdGuides/LVLP%20Series%20Datasheet.pdf
 
Mike.