Rundown of current available options

anuva

New Member
My basement is open and the upper floor is going to be remodeled so I'd imagine this is a perfect opportunity to add smart home/home automation features. It'll be my wife, our young children (an infant and one on the way, so far) and I. Safety, security, convenience and openness (Z-Wave, Zigbee, etc. not Insteon, closed systems) are priorities in that order. What are the products and features available on the market at the moment?
 
Not to side track your thread but openness isn't necessarily a good thing. It can be, but not always and not always in such a way that the positives outweigh the drawbacks. Z-Wave, for instance, is probably too open, and hence what could have been a nicely standardized system is really sort of non-standard and very difficult to support. There are too many ways to do things and too much latitude to manufacturers as to how to do them.

Also, though I'm not particularly an Insteon fan, I'm not sure it's fair to say that Insteon is more closed than Z-Wave. They support third party developed hardware, right?

Zigbee is the most advanced of those, but also the one least implemented outside of proprietary (and hence closed) systems. So, in a way, it's more open in concept than in real world practice. It ALLOWS for openness but doesn't require it, and the biggest users of it in the automation world so far have chosen not to go that route.

Anyway, sorry for the philosophical detour, but some of these things are worth consideration.
 
Dean Roddey said:
Zigbee is the most advanced of those, but also the one least implemented outside of proprietary (and hence closed) systems. So, in a way, it's more open in concept than in real world practice. It ALLOWS for openness but doesn't require it, and the biggest users of it in the automation world so far have chosen not to go that route.
I'm not sure i agree with that. My HAI system is using Zigbee locks from both Kwikset and Yale, I have a HAI Zigbee OmniStat2, a HAI load module, a load module from Smartenit, and I have Zigbee lightbulbs from Cree and from GE.  They all work perfectly together.  I really haven't seen the push to make "proprietary" devices with Zigbee like you can see with Z-Wave.  Yes, Control4 did go along a proprietary Zigbee path, but they are their own ecosystem. Stick to Zigbee HA products and you should be OK.
 
That is the power of Zigbee. If you want to be proprietary like Control4 does, that is fine. If you want open, that is what the HA profile allows. Utilities have SE which allows a high level of security.  It may seem complex at first, but once you understand the profiles, Zigbee is really flexible.
 
As for building an entire home automation system, don't get to caught up in the technologies because chances are you will need many.  I use Somfy RTS for blinds, GE/ITT wireless for security sensors, Zigbee for locks and bulbs and UPB for wall switches.  At this point-in-time, no one, or even two or three technologies can do it all.  There is nothing wrong with mixing and matching.  
 
Here just starting to play with Zigbee. (IE only a few light / appliance modules and wireless trinkets).
 
My OPII panel connects to X10, UPB and Z-Wave today.
 
That said I utilize UPB for my light switches, X10 for my Christmas decorations.  I have had no issues with my UPB light switches.
 
I do have one Z-Wave (legacy) network plugged in to my OPII panel with a few devices.
 
One ZWave + PIM plugged in to Homeseer today and two (Zwave +) more plugged in to two Almond + controllers.   (multiple Z-Wave networks plus two Zigbee networks)
 
Not using much of today I have an Insteon PIM plugged in to Homeseer.
 
ano said:
I'm not sure i agree with that. My HAI system is using Zigbee locks from both Kwikset and Yale, I have a HAI Zigbee OmniStat2, a HAI load module, a load module from Smartenit, and I have Zigbee lightbulbs from Cree and from GE.  They all work perfectly together.  I really haven't seen the push to make "proprietary" devices with Zigbee like you can see with Z-Wave.  Yes, Control4 did go along a proprietary Zigbee path, but they are their own ecosystem. Stick to Zigbee HA products and you should be OK.
 
I was just saying that there's a LOT of Zigbee stuff out there, but so far most of it is not for general use, because it doesn't require openness, only allows it. It's getting better obviously; but, AFAIK, the vast majority of installed Zigbee devices are proprietary at this point. Though I could be wrong about that.
 
Mostly I was just trying to get across that 'openness' isn't necessarily as obvious as it might seem.
 
Okay, forget about the openness stuff for now. Besides thermostats, security sensors and controlling light switches & outlets what else can I do with smart home/home automation?
 
It's not necessarily what you can do, but think of it more in linear terms.....can I have X input cause Y output or perform Z action then figure out how to do what you want to do with which hardware/software/platform.
 
anuva said:
Okay, forget about the openness stuff for now. Besides thermostats, security sensors and controlling light switches & outlets what else can I do with smart home/home automation?
Operating window shades and drapes, automatic skylights, windows, garage doors and gates, audio/video, security cameras, plant irrigation, pool equipment, door locks, monitor and optimize power/water/gas consumption, make announcements/reminders, receive texts/calls on important events and perform any desired X->Y->Z action as in the post above.
 
You're asking the wrong question...hardware doesn't have to be an open platform, but your central controller does. Excluding INSTEON needlessly excludes a viable option... All hardware these days has an API, it's just a question of which controller implements which APIs... 
 
I would have to disagree slightly.

The overall level of integration would determine how open the controller or host system(s) need to be. For example, you could control an entire house via dry contact and direct serial or data integration if the controllers supported such.....no different than running a PC pushing out serial data to devices that could receive such or the syntax.
 
By the same token, you could have a panel that only spoke to say, Zwave devices and be able to integrate pretty much everything that most people would want to control via that or dry contacts, assuming the downstream hardware allowed that.
 
For example, with enough rules and I/O's, on a hardware platform (I'll toss out an OPII or M1G) you could really control everything in a house with a couple of exceptions relatively easily via dry contacts. The finer integrations are going to require the controller to speak and pass data on a higher level.
 
These days though, media management and A/V gear is a pretty ubiquitous check list item for most folks, which sort of puts you in the 'higher level controller' bracket right off the bat I guess. Not that everyone does media stuff, but it's a big driver of automation these days.
 
Yes, that is true but for all intents and purposes, I could just put in a robust enough server, build a few VM's and assuming my security integration isn't too great, call it a day. The hardest part is getting the stuff that must be UL or embedded to play nice, but now a days, it's not that difficult if it puts out the data or the protocol is known, then it's only building or getting the gateways to the other products, either via software or hard I/O.
 
The limiting factor is always going to be budget and what sort of gateways are needed. Enough budget, all you'd have to do is move into a more commercial product and platform and it's all there and has been for years. The larger limiting item is standard residential construction and the current desire to run everything wireless or limiting cabling as much as possible. They've done it for years with products like, say, BACNET  and Lonworks or token ring proprietary.....one is more open than the other, but if you have the head end to generate or receive what is sent and translate, nothing is impossible.
 
I'm not arguing, only putting out what's there.
 
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