New construction - 7000 Sq. Ft. House

I would like:
 
- Monitored security (third party monitoring + self monitoring; indoor and outdoor)
- Lighting Control (recessed led + outlets)
- Temperature Control
- Media Entertainment Control with centralized source (media rack)
- Scene management (button and voice)
- Voice control (preferably with Echo)
- Audio control (sonos + speakers, sonos + sonos speakers, etc...)
- single interface or limited to two apps single device
- do it yourself panels with tablets in recessed wall housings
 
There are so many options out there and I'm a little lost, though I have some ideas. I'd like to hear what the experts (you guys say)...
 
Thanks in advance!
 
 
 

Do you have a specific question(s)?
Pre-wiring
Installation
Equipment

It would also help if you told us your budget for this. The options are very different if you only want to spend, say $5,000 than if you are willing to spend $50,000.

I am in the pre-wire phase in my construction, but want opinions on  all of it including components/solutions.
 
Things I've looked into, in no partibular order, mainly because they represent different aspects of an overall solution:
 
- Insteon (whole range)
- Smarthings
- ISY
- ELK
- Homeseer
- Sonos
- Vivint
- Frontpoint
- Alarm.com
- Alarmrelay
- Cat6
- POE IP Cameras
- NAS
- PLEX
- Amazon ECHO
- ROOMIE Remote
- Vidabox
- Tivo Bolt
- Directv
- Nest
- Ecobee
- iRule
- Lutron Lighting
 
I am just a little overwhelmed with the number of paths I can go down. I want a self-maintanable system, so am not interested in Control4, and others that require a pro to maintain.

RAL said:

It would also help if you told us your budget for this. The options are very different if you only want to spend, say $5,000 than if you are willing to spend $50,000.

Click to expand...

Thanks, RAL I'm willing to spend up to 15K total, Including equipment.

For this size house you might want to consider hiring someone, but honestly, even if you did it all yourself, $15K is probably too low.  It can be done, but you would be amazed how fast it adds up.  $15K might complete the lighting and security.

I have two very specific question related to lighting control.
 
1) Lutron has QS as well as RA2, are the switches compatible with both offerings? i.e. can I use RA2 switches with QS?
2) Is Insteon for lighting control comparable to Lutron? Is it reliable? Does it work with Commercial Electric Dimmable LED recessed cans.

To answer #1 not compatible. Do you want single good looking keypads in each room, or multiple gang switches/dimmers. Lutron QS or Vantage Controls is the way to go.
#2 Insteon works off the power lines, Lutron is either wired like QS or RF like RA2. IMHO not in the same class as Lutron.  I would test the LED cans with any lighting control system, as they may flicker, or not dim way down, or you might not look the look when dimmed.
Also the $15K is way low even for the lighting only, unless you are doing it yourself.

Westcojack said:

To answer #1 not compatible. Do you want single good looking keypads in each room, or multiple gang switches/dimmers. Lutron QS or Vantage Controls is the way to go.
#2 Insteon works off the power lines, Lutron is either wired like QS or RF like RA2. IMHO not in the same class as Lutron.  I would test the LED cans with any lighting control system, as they may flicker, or not dim way down, or you might not look the look when dimmed.
Also the $15K is way low even for the lighting only, unless you are doing it yourself.

Click to expand...

 
Thanks, Westcojack. I'm leaning towards QS now, however, is doing it myself even an option? It seems at first glance that I have to go via an authorized retailer to get my hands on QS components.

Insteon works off both powerline and RF in a dual mesh, simultaneously repeating, self meshing network. Packets are confirmed or reception.
 
Obviously battery operated devices are RF only and require a dual band device within about 50' to convert to powerline. Dual band devices hearing signals on powerlines repeat them on RF and vice versa. Signals are repeatedly all AC powered devices simultaneously so that the more devices you have the stronger the network becomes.
 
Some older devices are repeating powerline only devices and slowly being replaced by dual band replacements.
 
For mainly remote control the Insteon Hub is an alternative. For smart logic the Insteon Hub+ uses cloud dependence or the ISY994i has self-contained smarts, uses less than 4 watts, and can operate ZigBee, zwave, X10, Insteon devices, and most Ethernet devices. currently in development beta stage is a node server that will make a RPi act as an extension for devices that the native ISY994i cannot handle directly.
 
Insteon devices include very reliable basic devices like lamp and appliance modules, wall switches and dimmers, wired in minimodules, hidden door sensors, motions sensors.  Insteon thermostats and locks are available but not impressive. Zwave fills that gap which the ISY994i can do with added module. WiFi thermostats have been interfaced from ISY994i. Ant computer or controller that can send URL commands can operate ISY via it's REST interface.

If possible have the electricians use deep wall boxes. On both houses I've done in some of the boxes it has been tricky to fit the UPB or RadioRA 2 switches in. If you just force them in the switch might be angled slightly. Unlike toggle switches a slight angle on a decora style switches is noticeable even with the wall plate on.
 
My last house had UPB and the current house is Lutron RadioRA 2. Wiring the RaidoRA 2 switches is easier with the side screw terminals instead of pigtails with wire nuts. I do prefer the on / off rocker of the UPB switches over the single button of the Radio RA 2 switches. However the flicker I would have sometimes with LED bulbs is gone with RadioRA 2 and status reporting even with complex scenes is 100% accurate. Besides the extra cost of the RadioRA 2 switches I'm extremely happy with my decision.

RA2 is great, but QS supports more devices.  The count adds up.  We've got a 5k sqft house and I've got just under 150 devices.  I don't recall the specific numbers but the figure $13k rings a bell.  If you're building this big of a house and you want automation, you need to realize IT WILL NOT BE CHEAP.  Nor should you half-ass it and go without a plan to use decent stuff.
 
I'm not using Lutron shades (they don't offer a top-down variant) but if I did that would push me very close to the 200 device limit with a single RA2 setup.  
 
QS also offers a lot more programmability for schedules and the like.  Yes, the QS gear is more expensive and is not DIY.  But with the right integrator it can be a very nice setup.  
 
Lutron lighting control is the absolute best around.  They really know how to make durable, reliable and compatible lighting controls.  This matters more than ever when you start to get into LED lighting.
 
Planning how to automate a large house, especially a new one that's never been occupied, can be a daunting challenge.  It can be pretty stressful trying to figure it all out. But you really need to get your head around how you expect the automation stuff to perform and make sure it actually CAN.  We're nowhere near the stage of having "The Jetsons" for home automation.  
 
Me, I take the perspective that a traditional lighting and switch layout scheme is the best way to approach it.  NOT trying to hide everything with keypads.  Honestly, most of the time you want a specific light lit, not some fantasy scene.  That and guests, cleaning folks, contractors and kids shouldn't be punished for not knowing how to use the lights because the automation system is in their way.  Yes, keypads and apps have their place, but they're never a great solution without at least some traditional kinds of controls being available.
 
Consider paying for a consultation.  I did that for my lighting plan and it was worthwhile.  That helped me rearrange a few fixtures, adding some, removing some, etc.
 
My advice, find out who does QS installs in your area and have a sit-down with them.  

Thanks, If $13K was the number still I would be excited, if I were do my whole house, I think lighting alone, the QS folks are saying close to 40K.
I will likely go with QS, but reduce the number of lights I control to the essential areas, to try to cut my cost in half or a little less.
 
I'm thinking Mobotix for security cameras.
 
For A/V i'm happy with my Harmony setup.
 
For whole home audio, i'll do a series of connect amps and sound bars and ceiling speakers with Sonos.
 
For alarms, i will pre-wire doors/windows for sensors and decide on the alarm company later.

For my 2 cents, if you get the right lighting control expert to do the lighting controls, keypads is the only way to go. Traditional multiple gang switches look terrible, and guests always have to hit 2-3 switches to get lights on and off, three way switches cause confusion, etc. With a lighting control system pressing the Room On button (we always engrave every button) is a no brainer, as well as the Room Off. Most users of our systems really like the Dinner button, or Clean Up button, or Low button (like a dim scene to watch TV or a movie), or Path To Kitchen button, and rarely ever use the buttons that control single lights.
 
Make sure to get and call a few references from the automator, and ask how easy it is to use the system, are they happy with it, and was the automator reliable.

Bite the bullet.  If you don't do it now, you won't do it later.  Trust me on this.  If you want to do this automation thing it has to be addressed from a whole house perspective.  Otherwise you're setting yourself up for a constant reminder of what you skimped on.  Worse, anyone else in the house using the stuff is going to have the same opinion.  Ask yourself, how much grief are you willing to put up with?
 
It's very hard to do automation for a whole house without the whole house being controllable.  Lots of scenes and schedules won't work.  Sensors, etc.  That and there's the on-going charges you'll rack up for programming and re-programming.  There's going to be enough of that already.  You'd be essentially re-doing the programming all over again depending on how the add-on lighting is integrated.  
 
But if you're serious about actually doing it piecemeal then just know what you're up against.
 
Good plan on the alarms, that's well-plowed territory.  Wire for sensors everywhere that your neighborhood might dictate.  Even if you never use it, wire buried behind drywall and trim is less expensive than ripping things open later. 
 
Best-bet on whole house audio is wire it up like you'd use in-room wall controls.  Again, wire is cheap.  Run the speaker wires and a CAT5E control wire along a point where they're be a place for a wall control.  You don't have to cut in the box, just leave the CAT5E back there and some slack for the audio.  This way you're covered in the event you go with wall controls that might act as amps for the speakers, while still having them home-run back to a central point.  Again, wire left behind is cheaper than adding it later.  
 
My $13k figure was devices alone.  I did all the programming (took lutron training for that).  The contractor's electricians installed the switches as there's nothing special about how they get wired.  My lighting circuits are all wired as if regular switches could be used.  This way if any automation changes are needed I can still fall back on traditional wiring schemes.  Some folks are in love with the idea of putting all the dimmers out of sight, or all the way back in the electrical panel.  I think that's a dumb plan for the long-haul.  Lots of past automation systems did this and they're a pain in the ass for future homebuyers.  As in, it makes the house worth LESS because of it.