Elk M1 Gold - How Many Expanders, Power Supplies, etc. Do I Need?

ccmichaelson

Active Member
New Construction.  I pulled all my own LV wires.  First time Elk M1 Gold owner.  Here's how many devices I will have connected to my alarm panel:
 
Motion Sensors:  37   [Bosch Blue Line Gen 2 (ISC-BPR2-WP12)]
360 Motion & glass 1 [TBD - Recommendations?]
Door Contacts:  13  [Tane 3/8" sensor+magnet]
Window Contacts: 16  [Tane Pill]
Water Sensors:  15  [GRI 2600]
4-wire smokes:  7  [TBD]
4-wire CO/smokes:  2  [TBD]
Keypads:  4  [ I already purchased the Elk M1 DBH module]
 
Wish there was a spreadsheet or app ...
 
 
 
Elk has a current draw spreadsheet that will help with the power calculations.
 
If you want to wire up everything on its own zone, you'll need over 80 zones.  So figure on at least 5 M1XINs.
 
With the number of keypads, smokes, PIRs and zone expanders that you plan on having, you'll almost certainly need an aux power supply.
 
You didn't say whether you'll have an M1XEP ethernet interface, but if you do, don't forget to add that to the calculation unless you are powering it from a wall wart and don't want/need internet access during a power failure.
 
In addition to determining the number of expanders you need to accomodate sensors you should give a lot of thought to the location of the sensors that will be connected to those expanders. While one expander will handle 16 zones you may choose to use two expanders in two different location to make the wiring those same 16 zones easier. The same goes for power supplies. Two 3 amp  supplies may be easier to wire than on six amp power supply and the shorter the power supply wires the less power loss.
 
Mike.
 
Thanks RAL and Mike for the comments.  
 
@RAL - I'll take a look at Elk's amp spreadsheet and plug in the amps I know of.  I already have the M1XEP and will factor that in too.
$Mike - I already home ran everything into a central location.  I purchased the 28" enclosure and I also have a 14" enclosure that came with the kit.  I'd love some advice on where all the components of my system should go - specifically what should I put in the 14" can and what should I put in the 28" can?  Where it gets confusing for me is how I'm going to wire up things that require power (e.g. motion sensors).  If I have many M1XIN's I believe two wires (green/white) go to one zone and the red/black go to the aux power but there's obviously going to be separation between the two (power supply & M1XIN so is it common to remove the outer jacket of my alarm wire where it enters the can and just run the wires accordingly?
 
If anyone has some close up photos to look at I'd sure appreciate it - or point me to an existing thread.
 
I don't think htat anyone can answer your question without knowing your installation in the way of rooms and their locations.
 
I would start by drawing the floor-plan of the rooms that are involved. It doesn't have to be anything fancy. When I did mine I just sketched my house's layout on a piece of paper with a pencil but cad software is nice if you have it. After drawing the rooms you can draw in where each sensor smoke detector, keypad, speaker etc will be. With that done you will be able to look at the plan and decide where to put the elk panel and power supplies based on shortest wire runs and ease of access to the panel for installation and maintenance.
 
I ended up mounting a 28" box in the wall at the top of my basement staircase with a 4 amp aux power supply in a box just below it. I also installed a 14" box in my detached garage to house an input expander and output expander and DBH. Initially I had an aux power supply in the garage but now power the garage from the aux in the house via wires in an undergound conduit.
 
Mike.
 
ccmichaelson said:
ccmichaelson, on 28 Nov 2015 - 14:58, said:
Thanks RAL and Mike for the comments

@RAL - I'll take a look at Elk's amp spreadsheet and plug in the amps I know of. I already have the M1XEP and will factor that in too.
$Mike - I already home ran everything into a central location.
Where is the central location? Are you sure that you need the second box?

I read your post too fast and didn't see that you are already wired so your location for the elk is already determined. Which size box you use there is up to what you need to put in the box. You will have the elk panel, and xep, one or two backup batteries and.......

Mike.
 
28" would house a very large M1 install. Aux power and the like should be shed off the panel and to a separate supply, which I'd recommend a single, most preferably an Altronix with a pair of PD9's, which would get you the ability to land 32 powered cables without really having an issue (2 per output, which also equalizes the clamping on the terminal blocks).
 
The second enclosure would be an excellent battery box and I'd nipple it just below the 28".
 
DEL
 
I'm glad that I used the 28" box in the house. In addition to the elkpanel it houses 1 DBH, 1 surge suppressor, 1 xep, 1 battery, 1 xsp w/UPB CIM plugged into 1 power strip and 1 TWA. I flush mounted it so it doesn't look so bad. I believe that I could have fit it all into a 14" box but beimg my first install it was nice to have a little extra room to work with.
 
Mike.
 
$Mike - I already home ran everything into a central location. 
 
You may want to re-think pulling all zones back to a central location. The purpose of an input expander is that it allows you to run a single cat5 wire to a distant location and then run zone wires in that area to it.
 
For example: you can put an input expander on each level of a building. Then run 1 cat 5 wire from the elk panel to each of those expanders. This would allow you to run all zone wires on each level to the expander on that level and not have to go all of the way back to the elk panel. If a level had 10 zones that would be 20 leads that you would have to run back to the elk rather than just one cat5 cable.
 
Mike.
 
ccmichaelson said:
New Construction.  I pulled all my own LV wires.  First time Elk M1 Gold owner.  Here's how many devices I will have connected to my alarm panel:
 
Motion Sensors:  37   [Bosch Blue Line Gen 2 (ISC-BPR2-WP12)]
360 Motion & glass 1 [TBD - Recommendations?]
Door Contacts:  13  [Tane 3/8" sensor+magnet]
Window Contacts: 16  [Tane Pill]
Water Sensors:  15  [GRI 2600]
4-wire smokes:  7  [TBD]
4-wire CO/smokes:  2  [TBD]
Keypads:  4  [ I already purchased the Elk M1 DBH module]
 
Wish there was a spreadsheet or app ...
Do you mind if I ask what sort of installation this is that uses 37 motion detectors and 13 doors?
 
Mike.
 
mikefamig said:
Do you mind if I ask what sort of installation this is that uses 37 motion detectors and 13 doors?
 
Mike.
 
My new home.  Door contacts include detached RV garage, house garage, and all exterior doors.  I put at least 1 motion sensor in every room (multiple in larger rooms) mainly for home automation items (e.g. lighting control).
 
DELInstallations said:
28" would house a very large M1 install. Aux power and the like should be shed off the panel and to a separate supply, which I'd recommend a single, most preferably an Altronix with a pair of PD9's, which would get you the ability to land 32 powered cables without really having an issue (2 per output, which also equalizes the clamping on the terminal blocks).
 
The second enclosure would be an excellent battery box and I'd nipple it just below the 28".
 
@DEL - I looked up Altronix website...what model number are you suggesting and how is it different then the PD9's?
 
An Altronix power supply like the AL400 (4 Amps) or AL600 (6 Amps) would be good choices.  You can get them with or without power distribution boards (PD4, PD8, PD16).  The power distribution boards are available with fuses or PTCs (adds a "CB" to the end of the model).
 
The Altronix distribution boards are very similar to the Elk PD9s.  Just a different number of outputs and options for fuses or PTCs.
 
Some example Altronix models would be:
 
AL400ULX:        4 Amp power supply, no distribution board.
AL400ULPD8:      4 Amp power supply, 8 output fused distribution board.
AL400ULPD8CB:    4 Amp power supply, 8 output PTC distribution board.
AL400ULXPD16CB:  4 Amp power supply, 16 output PTC distribution board.
 
You can often find a bargain on the complete supplies as well as the individual distribution boards on eBay.  Look carefully at what is being sold, however.  Some older Altronix models use step down transformers rather than having direct AC line connections.  There's nothing terribly wrong with that, they are just a little less efficient.
 
You have several considerations to deal with.  They include:
1. Power
2. The number of 16 port zone expanders you will need.
3. The number of RS485 bus loads.  The base ELK supports 4, you will need a bus expander to add more than 4 devices and each keypad counts as do the zone expander cards.
4. Mounting space for it all.  As was suggested, you can remote some of the zone expanders to both reduce wire run length, as well as eliminating all those wires coming to one place.
 
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