Garage Area Woes - Disarm or Bypass?

I have an Elk M1 EZ8 (connected to a HomeSeer automation controller).
 
My problem is the garage.
 
I have the following as #2 area in Elk m1 Zone (with no keypad for area #2):

• Garage Overhead Door Sensor
• Garage Foyer Entry Door
• Garage Motion Sensor

 
Right now, I have the #1 area (interior home) and our #2 area (garage) as two separate areas.  This was due to some early testing that didn't seem to allow bypassing the motion when I opened the Foyer door.  I then created a rule to arm the garage whenever the (with some logic to ensure all doors are closed) interior zone.
 
This allows me to have a rule when I open the garage foyer entry door (a non-alarm door), the #2 area (garage) is disarmed.
 
The problem is last night, I didn't know on area #2 motion got tripped on the keypad in our bed, assigned to area #1, until the siren went off. 
 
How can I either:

• Make the garage part of the #1 interior zone if bypass is possible while armed
• Have Keypad in area #1 respond to area #2 issues (while remaining in area #1)

 
PS - Cars not parked in garage and we use prox readers to open garage door (so I can disarm it)...so we don't open the external door that often.  Due to that, we use the garage a lot as an extension of our home and I don't want the alarm to go off if we get a load of laundry done after the alarm arms.

Assuming the spaces are attached: Change it to one area. Without benching my system here, I don't think the fault on a burglar point in another area would give the ability to bypass the system on any system, counter intuitive.
 
You could add a shunt relay to shunt the motion on a fault of the door (assuming between connected spaces) and then perform time checks based on counters. Common lobby could also possibly be used, but I would need to know more about the layout and how the granular functionality is needed.

Thanks for the insight. 
 
In my case, the garage entry door is NOT burglary point.  It's non-alarm.
 
The only alarm zones are the overhead door and the motion.
 
Right now, if I open the attached garage  foyer door, I disarm  #2 area.   I'd prefer to just bypass the sensor if it's in area #1...but as I mentioned...I can't seem to bypass a zone via a rule WHILE the alarm is armed.
 
PS - The garage arms based on all the doors closed + #1 area being armed.

Bypassing is done prior to arming, you can't do it after a system is armed. Pretty much a SOP for all panels out there.
 
Have you looked into different definitions of the zone/system? To me, this is a perfect example for usage as a night interior zone. You could further change this by using the door/non burglar point to shunt the PIR, but it'd have to be done via a relay and not software and how you drive the relay would be either counter or timer based, I wouldn't latch the detector based on an open/closed. 
 
Have you considered different zone definitions and use night, stay and other arming methods? The perimeter points would arm the system and then you'd only have to contend with a "stay" and a "night" condition which would be easily manageable via the stay key scrolling, and you wouldn't have to disarm either, no?
 
I think you're adding to complexity of the system by programming 2 areas/partitions. Would you ever have the 2 points in the garage armed and not the house? Would you have the house armed but not the garage? If the answer is no or not sure, a partition really isn't the correct solution.
 
Maybe post some further details and rules with your intent so a reasonable solution can be worked out?

My house is divided into 4 area, one for each floor and a garage area. I only have physical keypads on the first floor, so I have rules to sympathetically arm the other areas (if ready) and delay the garage area by 5 minutes to allow time for the door motor light to turn off. Depending on alarm mode, my rules may not arm the upper floors to allow opening a window on cool nights.

I do not use cross zone pools, as that would require all other areas to be armed first before the main area can be armed.

Garage door is a non-alarm zone to prevent tripping when I have to manually use my remote to open the door as the garage door is my point of entry. Otherwise, I use a geofence to disarm the alarm and open the door as I arrive. I have rules (programs) in my ISY to alert me if I left the door open at night, or if the door is forced open if the alarm is armed.

@ Elvis: The OP's issue is being able to view alarm status in real time on an area that doesn't have a keypad.

Cross zone pool is a different animal, unless you're referring to making a point common (referred to as common lobby partitioning) to other areas. The OP's garage door sounds like a pass door between a traditional garage and the connected house, not an OHD.
 
The problem using multiple areas and not having a keypad for each means you're not going to see true status at a keypad unless you log into the other partition. Same holds true on an alarm. Defeats the ability to see what's goign on in a moment's notice or what caused the alarm, which IMHO, is an important item.

Multiple areas are not a problem for me since I have an old tablet mounted on a second floor wall and another even older tablet on the third floor landing table. Not to mention I have the same apps on my phone. So in effect I have virtual keypads to diagnose any problem. In my house, knowing which zone triggered the alarm is secondary, at best, after taking appropriate defensive posture.

http://youtu.be/26vTRyHy048

Thanks all!  I uber appreciate all the ideas and confirmations.  
 
 
It seems like:

• Confirmed bypass of a single device (even using an Elk rule) not possible on already armed area. (easiest solution).
• Confirmed I can't hear another areas on a keypad.

I can:

• Use HomeSeer alerts over my Russound WHA (however, this is 99% reliable, not a 100%).
• HomeSeer to fire a Z-wave siren or hue lights alert mode
• Buy an Elk Z-Wave module, get electrical power to it to use a Z-Wave siren.

I have limited understanding of, but what I could gather from the smart folks answering, also seems that the following won't work:

• Cross Zone Pooling
• Common Area
• Interior Night Zone if I want motion to protect garage.

Additional Notes:

• I wanted to, the current HomeSeer Elk Plugin doesn't have ANY armed status (it does, but it doesn't work).  I have to add logic for Alarm Stay and Alarm Away, and would prefer to stick to these 2 statuses only...but not required.
• The garage has the audio Russound system so I wanted to have motion coverage of this sensitive area.   Alarm is in another part of the house.
• I do have a elk door control module for the garage proximity reader assigned to garage area, but at best I could add a buzzer to the garage/   Problem is, I don't have wire to the bedroom where I'd need to be alerted if I put it on dialer delay.

 
Thanks again for any ideas or best practices in your experience...or set my expectations that is a lost cause will both be great outcomes.

DELInstallations said:

Bypassing is done prior to arming, you can't do it after a system is armed. Pretty much a SOP for all panels out there.

Click to expand...

The Omni does allow this which I always found to be a very nice feature.  I can remotely bypass a troublesome zone tripping, or bypass a door or windows to perhaps get some air.

I added a Aeon Gen 5 ZW siren for the upper floors, and use "stay instant" mode at night to trigger the alarm immediately when an entry door is compromised. Even the garage door with some rules (programs) in my ISY. Otherwise, the alarm will not sound for 30 seconds (default entry delay) which may make a difference.

As I said, make your house a single area, use the scrolling option on the KP's and change the ZT to night interior. That would give you 3 basic arm modes. Then add a shunt relay that triggers off the door between the spaces. How it's implemented would probably be based off a counter, phantom output and time.
 
The KAM would or should give you the arm/disarm functionality and possibly open the OHD for you.
 
And while I congratulate Elvis on his integration and it working for him....I've never been a fan of using tablets as the only UI on a system. At 2AM, when the alarm hiccups, it's far more difficult to see what's going on, scroll through 4 menus and then have background items to deal with. From dealing with enterprise level integration and security, KISS is the best solution.

DELInstallations said:

As I said, make your house a single area, use the scrolling option on the KP's and change the ZT to night interior. That would give you 3 basic arm modes. Then add a shunt relay that triggers off the door between the spaces. How it's implemented would probably be based off a counter, phantom output and time.
 
The KAM would or should give you the arm/disarm functionality and possibly open the OHD for you.
 
And while I congratulate Elvis on his integration and it working for him....I've never been a fan of using tablets as the only UI on a system. At 2AM, when the alarm hiccups, it's far more difficult to see what's going on, scroll through 4 menus and then have background items to deal with. From dealing with enterprise level integration and security, KISS is the best solution.

Click to expand...

 
I'd prefer to use nothing but the alarm system for safety systems.
 
I'm not sure if I could build a shunt without buying additional output hardware or wiring.  I wired the elk myself, so I understand the basics.  But wouldn't creating a physical "bypass" require me to turn off the EL resistor?  (and change to straight open/close).
 
Digressing on another question, I was planning to add a Z-Wave power switch to the garage overhead door power....when the Elk is armed.  Essentially making it impossible to open the garage door when the sytem is armed.   Externally, we would use a proximity reader if we needed it open, which can trigger the door to re-open.  Need to test the "boot time" of the overhead door.  Trying to think about the downsides of this.   We don't use the garage wireless remotes.

You need a DPDT relay and another resistor. In the case of the M1, an Elk 924 or an Altronix TTL would be the suggestion, running off the trigger output on the panel.
 
Not sure if the Zwave method is going to really work properly. I'd probably look an an electric lock on the track as being just as easy. SDC and others make them if it's really a concern.
 
That said, it's just as easy to force a door off the track and get in, so cutting the power and locking it down really don't do much.

DELInstallations said:

And while I congratulate Elvis on his integration and it working for him....I've never been a fan of using tablets as the only UI on a system. At 2AM, when the alarm hiccups, it's far more difficult to see what's going on, scroll through 4 menus and then have background items to deal with. From dealing with enterprise level integration and security, KISS is the best solution.

Click to expand...

I still have physical keypads on my first floor.  My iPads are solely for 24/7 security monitoring.  I would tend to disagree about the speed at which one can diagnose a tripped zone using a mobile app vs. the 2 line LCD display on a physical keypad.  I can also use the same app to see a grid of all my security cameras with one tap. Not only will I know there is a possible threat, but I will be able to see exactly where it is and take appropriate offensive action if necessary.  If the threat attempts to make an assault up the stairs to the living quarters, two of my cameras are on backup power (in addition to all my comm gear) if they think they can evade detection by cutting power.
 
Unless you are Superman with X-Ray vision or have a physical keypad with camera monitoring on your night table, I find it difficult that you can detect and assess the situation faster. Since I installed and test the system regularly, I do not have false alarms. So if my alarm ever does trip, it is not a false alarm or a drill. 

4D levels of protection:

1. Deter
2. Detect
3. Delay
4. Defend

Anything less, or if you are expecting an alarm company or a LEO to come to your rescue, you potentially place yourself and family at risk when every second counts.    While you fumble around to determine if the alarm trip is real, I will have already assessed the situation, taken a defensive position, and prepared to take offensive action if necessary.  What choices you make depend on your situation and what helps you sleep at night.
 
​Peace out.  

If you're happy with your homebrew, rock on, so be it. The funny thing is an "offensive" that you describe is far from the castle doctrine and that's another discussion. Overzealous comes to mind, where people end up getting hurt and killed, no matter what your intent seemed to be.
 
Obviously, it hit a nerve with you, but I've had Ipads and apps stop working or hiccup with better integration, so it's not something I'd want to do or use for a sole means personally. There's other ways to accomplish the same result. Same with programming options. To each their own. If you're happy with areas and the caveats contained within, rock on.
 
The 4D's....well, assuming you're LEO or trained, you modified one. It's detain, not defend. Different animal.
 
I don't count on CS monitoring or an alarm to save me or protect me. Monitored to assist with an appropriate response, yes. I'm not going to get this to devolve into a discussion about whether or not a firearm in a house (judging from the offensive statement) is a benefit or a hindrance (studies have shown the latter) and increasing the level of danger within the house. While I'm all for firearms and responsible ownership (I have family members employed by the NSSF and avid gun owners) I don't agree with going on the offensive. Will never stand up in court and opening yourself up for legal issues.....precedent has been set in castle doctrine states, let alone the non-progressive states alone.
 
That said, I have full auto, semi auto and a PSG-1 that was a nightmare to get through with a FFA, but very fun to hunt with, very accurate to 500 yards.