2 Questions before I take the plunge on an Omni System

E

emrosenberg

Member
I've been doing a ton of research to determine which system would work best for me.  I'll be able to take advantage of a lot of the automation aspects of the Omni system, so I'm leaning that way.  What concerns me are the following two issues, and I would appreciate feedback:
1) What are the current options for cellular monitoring - I've read all the posts here, but I still don't see a good solution.  I won't have a POTS, so that is out of the question.  Leviton doesn't make a 4G board, so where does that leave me?  I spoke with some folks at alarmrelay, and they said they had been having problems with whatever their clients had been using for their Omni panels.  If I can't find a reliable and secure method of reaching the monitoring company then of course I'll have to use a different panel
 
2) What is the current state of the Snap-Link app?  I don't care that much about remotely controlling the automation components (after all the idea is that a well designed system runs itself with occasional maintenance), but I can see that I would want the ability to remotely arm and disarm the system, or unlock zigbee doorlocks.  Reviews on both Apple and Google app store are atrocious - but is that what the folks here are experiencing?  And the third party Space app seems like its been abandoned (and do I really want to rely on a small time developer for my security system anyway)?
 
Reading through everyone's posts has been extremely helpful thus far, and I look forward to your insights.
 
 
I'm not familiar with the Omni system but I noticed that you didn't mention online monitoring systems. You can have your system professionally monitored using an ethernet connection with no need for pots or cell service.
 
Mike.
 
Can't comment on the cellular aspect, but as far as a phone app goes, I've been using one called H@ME that is on the Apple app store.  No frills, not updated often, but rock solid and does exactly what it's supposed to do.  I control security, lighting, locks and "Buttons" all the time with it.
 
Here using copper on one set up and FIOS (whatever) on another set up.  I have not had any issues with the FIOS configured telephone line to date (a few years now).
 
There are a few OmniPro 2 users here that have purchased functional internet / cellular dialers that work fine with the OmniPro 2.  Using Next Alarm here (~ 10 years now).
 
Here do not utilize SnapLink.
 
Hi there. Let me comment on your questions.
 
1)  The Omni uses Contact ID and a few others for monitoring, but Contact ID seems to be the standard. Contact ID works over a plain old analog phone line, the actual data rate is very low 110 baud I believe, and the amount of information transmitted is very low. Cellular technology is quickly evolving, but you certainly don't need 4G or even 3G for Contact ID.  The Leviton cellular solution is a bit dated, but you can use any as long as it works with Contact ID and the monitoring company you have.  Monitoring over IP is not standardized at this point, but it is evolving. I have Next Alarm and they supply a "box" that takes Contact ID from the Omni and converts it to IP. I used a wired Internet for monitoring, but there is no reason wireless cellular Internet can't be used either. If you do go cellular Internet, just make sure you have enough data to support monitoring.  I would suspect 500 Mb a month would be fine. 
 
So all-in-all there are many options out there.  If Alarm Relay is your choice, ask them what solution they use for their Contact ID customers. The Omni Contact ID is exactly like the ELK Contact ID or any other, so really being on Omni makes no difference.  What they are probably are saying is that they have problems with the Leviton cellular box. Fine, there are plenty of others out there. If you go the Internet route, ANY wireless Internet works. Internet is Internet.  Ask them about their Internet and Contact ID solutions and go from there.
 
2) To control your system remotely, there is basically Snaplink from Leviton and SPACE.  I have both, and neither is fantastic but both are adequate.  I use an iPhone, but in addition to Snaplink, there might be other Android solutions as well.  Snaplink is not without its bugs, but it works for the most part. SPACE is better, but although the author says he is working on updates, there haven't been any in years, so don't hold your breath.  Both Snaplink and Space can turn the alarm on and off, activate buttons, lock doors, run scenes, view events, etc.  They work well enough for most things. 
 
I use the snaplink to monitor all of our stores and my house. It allows full control of the security, thermostats, music cameras, access, and more. For a $25 one-time fee, it's a pretty good app in my opinion.
 
I have the HAI Cellular Communication Center, and it seems to work OK.  It emulates POTS, so the Omni doesn't even know the difference.
 
Edited to add, you can find them on ebay every so often.
 
dementeddigital said:
I have the HAI Cellular Communication Center, and it seems to work OK.  It emulates POTS, so the Omni doesn't even know the difference.
 
Edited to add, you can find them on ebay every so often.
Click to expand...
There is no problem with it, but keep in mind that it uses a GSM cellular network which are being phased-out. Last I hear the date is sometime in 2017, so maybe you can get a year out of it.  After that you will need to upgrade it to a more modern technology like CDMA or WCDMA. I'm sure they are out there.
 
At the least, something like this should work: http://www.verizonwireless.com/home-office-solutions/wireless-home-phone/
It is nothing more than an analog phone jack on one side, and a cellular radio on the other. Most of the wireless operators sell these things in one form or another. Just plug in the Omni to the phone line, and you now have a cellular connection. Contact ID works at such a low speed, it shouldn't have any problems.
 
ano said:
Hi there. Let me comment on your questions.
 
1)  The Omni uses Contact ID and a few others for monitoring, but Contact ID seems to be the standard. Contact ID works over a plain old analog phone line, the actual data rate is very low 110 baud I believe, and the amount of information transmitted is very low. Cellular technology is quickly evolving, but you certainly don't need 4G or even 3G for Contact ID.  The Leviton cellular solution is a bit dated, but you can use any as long as it works with Contact ID and the monitoring company you have.  Monitoring over IP is not standardized at this point, but it is evolving. I have Next Alarm and they supply a "box" that takes Contact ID from the Omni and converts it to IP. I used a wired Internet for monitoring, but there is no reason wireless cellular Internet can't be used either. If you do go cellular Internet, just make sure you have enough data to support monitoring.  I would suspect 500 Mb a month would be fine. 
 
So all-in-all there are many options out there.  If Alarm Relay is your choice, ask them what solution they use for their Contact ID customers. The Omni Contact ID is exactly like the ELK Contact ID or any other, so really being on Omni makes no difference.  What they are probably are saying is that they have problems with the Leviton cellular box. Fine, there are plenty of others out there. If you go the Internet route, ANY wireless Internet works. Internet is Internet.  Ask them about their Internet and Contact ID solutions and go from there.
 
2) To control your system remotely, there is basically Snaplink from Leviton and SPACE.  I have both, and neither is fantastic but both are adequate.  I use an iPhone, but in addition to Snaplink, there might be other Android solutions as well.  Snaplink is not without its bugs, but it works for the most part. SPACE is better, but although the author says he is working on updates, there haven't been any in years, so don't hold your breath.  Both Snaplink and Space can turn the alarm on and off, activate buttons, lock doors, run scenes, view events, etc.  They work well enough for most things. 
Click to expand...
1. CID and SIA are the main standards. They are DTMF based. Reasonably low speed, however the raw data transmitted is actually quite a lot when you look at what is truly sent.
 
The Leviton solution is beyond dated, actually it's not even UL listed and has a TON of caveats and really is honestly something the uninformed or people that MUST DIY EVERYTHING would buy.
 
3G and 4G are marketing buzzwords, however, the big item is how the data is passed to the intermediary via the cell, which is going to be via IP from the cell tower, to the 3rd party, then how the data is passed to the CS is another variable. The speed and amount of data being sent at any given time IS noticeable when you watch the raw data go through. The same holds true if you want to pick up a 4G communicator.....in an area where the 4G signal is marginal compared to the 3G signal. The signal is definitely discernible if you look at the dB ratings when looking at RSSI.
 
IP monitoring as far as the CS is concerned is standardized. There's a couple of major protocols the communicator would send and the CS only needs to support that method. Common is Osbourne/Hoffman or Surgard. All the major receivers support one or both. The only variables are what protocols the CS supports on the "heartbeat" and how they respond to the account.
 
Non-standard is what you're using, which is NA's proprietary digium and communications format. NA got into the industry when VOIP started coming to the market before the proliferation of IP based communications options were really on the market. NA's digium and their methods aren't UL....never have been, and when you know what's behind the scenes, it's actually scary, but if you're happy with it, rock on.
 
Internet is internet to a point. The biggest issue with true internet monitoring and a reliable path and CS protocol would come down to latency on the path and how that affects the heartbeat to the CS and how many before they dispatch or notify.
 
Seriously Ano, I build CS's and install the communicators at the panels and get them talking. Also build the head end, automation and communication routes, including building the networks themselves. All that you've mentioned as not standardized truly is and has been for about 10 years already.
 
DELInstallations said:
1. CID and SIA are the main standards. They are DTMF based. Reasonably low speed, however the raw data transmitted is actually quite a lot when you look at what is truly sent.
 
The Leviton solution is beyond dated, actually it's not even UL listed and has a TON of caveats and really is honestly something the uninformed or people that MUST DIY EVERYTHING would buy.
 
3G and 4G are marketing buzzwords, however, the big item is how the data is passed to the intermediary via the cell, which is going to be via IP from the cell tower, to the 3rd party, then how the data is passed to the CS is another variable. The speed and amount of data being sent at any given time IS noticeable when you watch the raw data go through. The same holds true if you want to pick up a 4G communicator.....in an area where the 4G signal is marginal compared to the 3G signal. The signal is definitely discernible if you look at the dB ratings when looking at RSSI.
 
IP monitoring as far as the CS is concerned is standardized. There's a couple of major protocols the communicator would send and the CS only needs to support that method. Common is Osbourne/Hoffman or Surgard. All the major receivers support one or both. The only variables are what protocols the CS supports on the "heartbeat" and how they respond to the account.
 
Non-standard is what you're using, which is NA's proprietary digium and communications format. NA got into the industry when VOIP started coming to the market before the proliferation of IP based communications options were really on the market. NA's digium and their methods aren't UL....never have been, and when you know what's behind the scenes, it's actually scary, but if you're happy with it, rock on.
 
Internet is internet to a point. The biggest issue with true internet monitoring and a reliable path and CS protocol would come down to latency on the path and how that affects the heartbeat to the CS and how many before they dispatch or notify.
 
Seriously Ano, I build CS's and install the communicators at the panels and get them talking. Also build the head end, automation and communication routes, including building the networks themselves. All that you've mentioned as not standardized truly is and has been for about 10 years already.
Click to expand...
So if NA isn't UL, and the C3 isn't either (in addition to relying on networks which are sunsetting), then what is/are the options for UL non-POTS communications with the monitoring station?  Would a device such as the verizon wireless one which ano linked to qualify?
 
No.
 
To be listed, the panel or communications route must be tested end to end and supervised. The unit Ano cited is great for a residential phone service, but as a qualified communications route and supervised by the host panel and end user, no.
 
You need to determine if you're going TCP/IP over a connection to the CS and provide the appropriate backup power to all the connected network equipment and gamble with the ISP (fact of the matter on non-enterprise or commercial levels of service) or go with an appropriate listed cellular alarm communicator.

The NA digium/ABN  is not UL listed. They also don't run their own CS'. They are a subcontract dealer to other monitoring vendors, which simply port the data back through the NA web front end. Dirty little secret which was known since their beginning days. They were the quick ones to market the DIY and VOIP solution for those that didn't look behind the curtain as to what they were offering, then they moved into the "traditional" dialer monitoring.
 
That said, if you're using cellular as a primary dialer, there's at least 3-4 listed and certified units/manufacturers that are commonly used. Only a few wires from the main panel and you need to talk to your particular monitoring vendor to see who they support. Uplink, Telular, Alarmnet, and Connect 24/DSC are the most commonly used without going to a different 3rd party (such as Alarm.com).
 
How secure is internet based monitoring from tampering? Like POTS, I've been concerned that a pair of cable cutters could prevent the panel from sending an alarm. I know cellular can be hi-jacked, but I would think the average thief is less likely to have the necessary equipment vs some readily available cable cutters.
 
Cellular can be jammed and internet can be DDOS attacked.....so the real item is how the CS has a protocol to deal with each.
 
Remember, a true cellular communicator is not running on the voice band, it's data only. Both devices should be supervised via a heartbeat to the CS or the 3rd party communications vendor.
 
I wanted to add and maybe it was said above by Haiku is the best app for working with the Omni. We run it in like 10 ipads at a minimum and it is great.  If Leviton was smart they would buy the product from the company.  It is lightyears more usable than snaplink.  Also he has a new version (less liked by the public) call Space.  Hopefully development on Space continues soon to catch up to Haiku's fantasticness.
 
Neil
 
DELInstallations said:
Remember, a true cellular communicator is not running on the voice band, it's data only. Both devices should be supervised via a heartbeat to the CS or the 3rd party communications vendor.
Click to expand...
 
 You mentioned above there are various protocols that a CS might use. Is the heartbeat signal something that the CS configures regardless of the protocol? In other words, if I install an Omni and select a CS that uses Contact ID, should I inquire about their support and configuration for the heartbeat signal? Is there a way to configure the frequency of the heartbeat? I'd think you'd want the heartbeat to signal at least several times an hour?
 
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