Lighted doorbell connection to Elk M1

I see Elk has an "official" how-to on connecting a lighted doorbell button (http://www.elkproducts.com/m1-applications-connecting-lighted-doorbell-button-to-m1-zone)
 
My question is if the resistor is required when using a button that is LED out of the box.  I think it is, but wanted to be sure since resistors aren't really readily available anymore (so long, Radio Shack) and I need to get our doorbell up and running ASAP.
 
EDIT: strike that...found a stash of extra EOLs and resistor math says 2 in parallel should be good.  BUT!  My question still remains....do LED-out-of-the-box doorbell buttons still need the resistors?
 
Thanks.
 
-Chris
 

Use a volt meter and measure the voltage that would be connected to the Elk zone. The page you linked shows that it should read about 7V.
 
Here, I used the ELK-930 doorbell detector to provide this functionality, but sure would be nice to be able to do it without the added expense...

Be certain that you don't connect voltage from the door bell ringer circuit into the Elk zone. A door bell button alone is a passive device but the doorbell circuit with ringer has a power supply.
 
Mike.

Thanks for the replies.
 
Yes, I will have a direct connection from the doorbell button to the Elk zone.  It all needs to be fixed because the wire from the existing ringer transformer got nicked in the wall, somewhere I cant reach.  The button wires are fine (confirmed with multimeter)
 
And FYI - this button: http://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-Satin-Nickel-Doorbell-Button/50237287#collapse1974230 directly connected leaves the Elk zone at about 6.4V.  I figure that qualifies as "about 7V", not that adding resistance would make it any better

Here used the two Elk boards mentioned (Elk-960 debounce circuit board and Elk-930) for my LED illuminated doorbell button.   Started here with a conventional doorbell button.   The doorbell is one zone on the panel and it has worked fine over the years.  I do not recall now if I used an EOL on it anymore.  The loop values are the same as the rest of the zones today.
 

 
There is only the panel voltage of 12VDC powering the two Elk boards.  The doorbell transformer AC voltage is only utilized for the original doorbell chimes and LED power.  Thinking that voltage was somewhere between 18-24VAC and the transformer is connected directly to an electrical box.
 
I had purchased the illuminated LED doorbell from a doorbell store on line.  It was made for the typical doorbell voltage and a sealed unit.  It was a bit difficult to fit at the time.   The LED doorbell button was more than if I had DIY'd.  Thinking here on CT there is a long thread on the installation of an LED doorbell button, 2 Elk boards, zones et al with pictures.

Over the years I have noticed that many folks touch the door bell button rather than push the door bell button and we end up not hearing the doorbell button. That said there are outdoor next to the front door sensors which trigger the doorbell events anyways without the press of a button these days.

How do you plan to setup your zone in RP? I think that non-alarm zones expect 12 volts when closed and zero volts when open. Can you setup a non alarm zone for end of line resistors?
 
Mike.
 
Correction - closed zone = ~13.8 volts

mikefamig said:

How do you plan to setup your zone in RP? I think that non-alarm zones expect 12 volts when closed and zero volts when open. Can you setup a non alarm zone for end of line resistors?
 
Mike.
 
Correction - closed zone = ~13.8 volts

Click to expand...

 
That would depend on how you have your zone defined. Even with a non-alarm zone, you can still specify if it's normally open or normally closed.
 
My doorbell is configured to be a Non-Alarm, Normally Open zone.

drvnbysound said:

That would depend on how you have your zone defined. Even with a non-alarm zone, you can still specify if it's normally open or normally closed.
 
My doorbell is configured to be a Non-Alarm, Normally Open zone.

Click to expand...

 
But can you define if the non-alarm zone is EOLR or not EOLR? A closed zone with EOLR in series is ~7vdc at the panel and a closed zone without EOLR is ~14vdc measured at the panel.
 
What is the resistance of the switch? Or to put it another way, what is the voltage at the panel when you close the switch? I'm trying to determine if the switch itself has measurable resistance. The panel expects a zone that is defined to be EOLR to have 2.2k ohms of total resistance.
 
Mike.

drvnbysound said:

My doorbell is configured to be a Non-Alarm, Normally Open zone.

Click to expand...

 
With a "Non-Alarm Normally Open" zone definition the panel will expect 0.0vdc open and ~13.8vdc closed.
 
Mike.
 
EDIT: No resistor is used.

Just finished the install, for now.
 
I had it temporarily wired (using 22-2) to the zone panel and was seeing 6.4V on the zone.  When I hooked it up at the actual doorbell location, voltage on the zone dropped to 5.0, both readings just looking at the Status in ElkRP.  
 
The wiring to the doorbell is 18-2 and is longer than my test wire (of course) but I was surprised to lose THAT much voltage.  At 5V the LED doesnt light up, but more importantly is this bad for the Elk panel? 
 
As far as resistance, its an LED lit button and there is a small PCB between the leads.  Im guessing there is some resistor built into the PCB already.
 
I have the zone defined like Elk recommended on their doorbell hookup page.  Its working fine, i.e. fires a rule when the zone becomes insecure which announces an 800MHz tone to signify someone pressed the button.

chrisexv6 said:

Just finished the install, for now.
 
I had it temporarily wired (using 22-2) to the zone panel and was seeing 6.4V on the zone.

Click to expand...

 
I don't understand how you wired it here. Are you saying that you shorted the zone + and zone common with a length of wire? If that is true then you should see ~13.8 volts.

At 5V the LED doesn't light up, but more importantly is this bad for the Elk panel?
 
I try to keep exterior anything voltage wise away from my OmniPro 2 panel.  That is me.
 
IE: many folks run or connect their irrigation solenoids directly to their panel.  I never did.
 
Looking at my stuff; not paying attention these days I did install a separate power supply for those outside things way back.  I did only have one issue relating to lightning here over the years with my irrigation anyways with a separate power supply just for the irrigation.
 
My outdoor lighting today is all LED with LED 12VDC DIN MeanWell power supplies (all separate from anything else).
 
I know too it just a doorbell and it is connected right on to the house and buried in the door frame surrounded by brick.
 
That is me and what I do here.

mikefamig said:

I don't understand how you wired it here. Are you saying that you shorted the zone + and zone common with a length of wire? If that is true then you should see ~13.8 volts.

Click to expand...

 
I think whatever resistor is on the PCB is essentially acting like an EOL (albeit more resistance than required). 
 
If I set the zone type to normally open, the voltage still shows 5.0 but the zone shows as violated all the time.  Changing it to EOL/Supervised makes Elk think its a normal monitored zone and the voltage is within range for it to not be violated.

There is going to be a resistor on the board to drop the voltage down to the range the LED needs to function. Also, doorbells are AC (no polarity) and you're on a DC system, so that's also going to be something to consider. Most likely there's another series of components (capacitor, diode, etc.) to facilitate the LED to reverse bias itself so it doesn't flicker on the normal AC system.
 
The LED itself is going to be good for a 1-2V hit off your output voltage.

Thanks DEL (and everyone else)
 
It almost seems like Id be better off with an incandescent lit button, converted the way Elk says to.  Unless its something with this particular LED button thats an issue.