Changing state of a zone from Not Ready to Ready

I have an Automatic Standby Generator (Generac) installed. When the generator is idle (not running) a internal relay is Normally Open (NO).  But when the generator starts up the internal relay goes to Normally closed (NC).  This internal ATS relay is connected to a zone on my OP2 panel.
 
So,when the generator is not running, the OP2 zone is in a Not Ready state.  But when the generator starts running, the OP2 zone goes from Not Ready to Ready state.
 
I wish to reverse this situation.  That is, have the zone in a Ready state when the generator is not running and the internal generator relay is Normally Open (NO).  And then have the zone in a Not Ready state when the generator is running and the internal generator relay is Normally closed (NC).
 
The problem is that I'm not sure how to accomplish this.  I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions offered.
 
 

Does the relay have NO and NC contacts that you can simply rewire?

If not then you could run the relay contacts to control another relay, like an ELk 912, that does have both NO and NC contacts and simply use the opposite set.

Does the relay have NO and NC contacts that you can simply rewire?

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The relay was installed by a licensed electrician about five years ago.  The relay was wired to the NO contacts since the automation product (Twine) I was using required NO contacts in order to send text messages.  I've opened up the ATS switch box to take a look at the relay.  It doesn't have any identifiable manufacturer markings or  NO/NC markings.  Each terminal is only marked with a number,  I.E. 1,5,9,8,4 etc.
 
I can't search for the relay schematics since I don't know the manufacturer/model of the relay,
 
I have the Leviton/HAI 4 relay board 10A07-1.  But I'm not sure how to trigger this relay board to indicate the status of the generator.  Triggering the relay board would probably be based on monitoring the Not Ready zone which is wired to the generator relay.  When this zone changes from NR to Ready, this would in turn have the OP2 turn one of the 10A07-1 relays on which in turn would change another zone from Ready to Not Ready to indicate the status of the generator.  IMHO, it's a little kludgy.

Do you use EOL resisters in your zones?  So you would put an EOL across the zone, so an open condition would be open ready, and closed is not-ready.  But unfortunately the EOL setting changes all zones. So if you are not already using EOLs you'd have to change the other zones.

ano said:

Do you use EOL resisters in your zones?  So you would put an EOL across the zone, so an open condition would be open ready, and closed is not-ready.  But unfortunately the EOL setting changes all zones. So if you are not already using EOLs you'd have to change the other zones.

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Yep, I use EOL resistors in all my zones.  I'm not sure I understand your procedure.  If I put a EOL resistor across the zone (connecting the + and -  terminals on the zone) this would always give me a closed ready situation.    The NO relay on the generator would have no effect on the zone when  the relay is energized (when the generator starts) putting the relay into a NC situation since EOL resistor connected across the zone terminals already creates a NC situation.  IOW, I'm not sure how to utilize the EOL resistor to accomplish my goal.

Doesn't the OP have 3 state zones? In that case, the EOLR would be installed at the relay across the NO and C and the relay would short out the EOLR upon activation.
 
Remember, electricity takes the path of least resistance. Once the relay changes to NC, the EOLR is no longer seen.

DELInstallations said:

Doesn't the OP have 3 state zones? In that case, the EOLR would be installed at the relay across the NO and C and the relay would short out the EOLR upon activation.
 
Remember, electricity takes the path of least resistance. Once the relay changes to NC, the EOLR is no longer seen.

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Unfortunately, the relay was installed in the generator a few years ago by a licensed electrician.  The relay has no identifiable manufacturer/model # markings and each terminal is only identified by a number 1,5,9,4 etc.  I don't know what terminals are Common, NO and NC closed.  Thus, installing a EOLR across NO and NC would be nothing more than a guess on my part.  The resolution to the problem would be really simple if I knew what terminal numbers represented NO, NC and Common.
 
I've left a voice mail for the electrician that did the work.  But have not yet heard from him yet

Your first post said that the relay was already connected to OP2 panel.
 
There are two ways to connect such a relay to the OP2. One is in parallel with the EOLR and the other is in series with the EOLR.
 
One of the two ways will yield the desired result.
 
Frederick

Frederick C. Wilt said:

Your first post said that the relay was already connected to OP2 panel.
 
There are two ways to connect such a relay to the OP2. One is in parallel with the EOLR and the other is in series with the EOLR.
 
One of the two ways will yield the desired result.
 
Frederick

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Yep, I  connected the two wires from the original HA device (Twine) which worked with the NO function of the relay.  This resulted in the zone being Not Ready.  But when the generator started up, the state of the zone went from Not Ready To Ready.  I'm trying to do the reverse.  Have the zone in a Ready state and go to a Not Ready state when the generator starts since this is the way all my other zones work.  I initially didn't use a EOLR for two reasons. First, I didn't use any EOLR resistor in this scenario since I assumed a EOLR was used primarily for supervision of the circuit and installing a EOLR in a relay in a very cramped HIGH VOLTAGE enclosure really didn't appeal to me.  Secondly, I have absolutely no idea what terminals are NO, NC and Com,  All terminals are only numbered. So, installation of a EOLR would be purely guesswork on my part.  Although I use resistors on all my zones, I think the above scenario worked without a resistor is because the Zone Resistors setting was set to NO in PCA.
 
Later, I  connected a EOLR across the + and - zone terminals on the OP2 panel.  This resulted in the zone always being in a Ready state.  
 
I was hoping there would be some solution at the panel since I have absolutely no info about identifying the relay terminals. A solution such as using another relay that would flip the NO to NC prior to reaching the OP2 zone input 

BobS0327 said:

Yep, I  connected the two wires from the original HA device (Twine) which worked with the NO function of the relay.  This resulted in the zone being Not Ready.  But when the generator started up, the state of the zone went from Not Ready To Ready.  I'm trying to do the reverse.  Have the zone in a Ready state and go to a Not Ready state when the generator starts since this is the way all my other zones work.  I initially didn't use a EOLR for two reasons. First, I didn't use any EOLR resistor in this scenario since I assumed a EOLR was used primarily for supervision of the circuit and installing a EOLR in a relay in a very cramped HIGH VOLTAGE enclosure really didn't appeal to me.  Secondly, I have absolutely no idea what terminals are NO, NC and Com,  All terminals are only numbered. So, installation of a EOLR would be purely guesswork on my part.  Although I use resistors on all my zones, I think the above scenario worked without a resistor is because the Zone Resistors setting was set to NO in PCA.
 
Later, I  connected a EOLR across the + and - zone terminals on the OP2 panel.  This resulted in the zone always being in a Ready state.  
 
I was hoping there would be some solution at the panel since I have absolutely no info about identifying the relay terminals. A solution such as using another relay that would flip the NO to NC prior to reaching the OP2 zone input 

Click to expand...

So what I and the others are saying, is if you are using EOL resistors, and it sounds like you are, then the OP II operates a bit different. If the zone is shorted (closed) or not connected (open) BOTH of these conditions result in a NOT READY. The ONLY way you get a SECURE is by using an EOL resister, and for the OP II they are 1K ohms. So you can wire this resister either in parallel with the zone or in series. If you ARE using EOL resistors on other zone, the generator zone MUST be using one also, because it won't work without one.  Your challenge is to find the resistor you already have. If its in series you need to put it in parallel with the zone, if its parallel then put it in series. So you don't need to touch the relay, just the resistor. 
 
So I know you are saying this zone doesn't use a EOL resister, but YOU ARE, because the OP II doesn't allow it to be not used on some zones and not used on others. Its all or nothing, at least for the built-in zones.

Hi,
 
1. Do the security, smoke, etc zones on the OP2 have EOLRs?
 
2. if so do you have a way of measuring resistance?
 
3. This "original HA device" - is it still in place and going to be used with the OP2?
 
4. if the answer to 2 and 3 is YES then measure the resistance across the two wires from the device in both states - generator running and not running.
 
One we have the answers we can proceed.
 
Also, JFYI, for this application the EOLR can be wired directly to the OP2 - you don't need to go inside the generator enclosure.
 
Frederick

It might be simpler to use an ohm meter to check for open/close on the relay (such as when stopped and running).  Of course check the connection for voltage before touching it with an ohm meter to avoid damaging the meter. 
 
How about a picture of the relay and ATS?

Yeah, a picture of the relay will help. How many pins? There aren't that many common pinouts, that shouldn't be to hard to figure out (I'm sure a few of us have worked with a lot of relays...)

Ano is on the right track.

I couldn't wrap my head around how to setup a NO zone initialized to  a ready state since I'm a DIYer and not a pro installer.  So, I searched the CT forums for info and came upon a image from another thread which helped to understand and implement ano's suggestion.  A picture is worth a thousand words.  I was able to properly configure the zone for NO using ano's info and the image.