Lighting Control For Fully Gutted House

I have an old house, I'm tearing down to the studs. I will be doing the work myself.  I have an ELK m1g, pretty much just using it for security now.
 
I'd like to have all lights fully automated, as well as having some wall outlets automated. I think my original plan was to use insteon, which I may do, but it seems like there might be a better (for me) solution out there that capitalizes on the notion that I have walls open, and have no problem running control wiring instead of $50each devices. I've been looking for a while, and I don't think I've come across a system that utilizes low voltage switches, relays at a central station or distributed, that is predecated on independant control wiring. 
 
I follow a fellow on youtube running the SuperHouseTV channel, who has taken all of the power lines for lights back to a central location, then uses low voltage at the switch points via ethernet to get the automation done. I think I'd like something like this, but in a commercially available system instead of homebrew.
 
That being said, I don't want to go too custom, as if I sell the place I don't want the next owner have to know how to program linux in order to use it, so I'd like to stick to commercially available components. I also don't want to go too far down that path myself. 
 
I like the model of centralized intelligence rather than distributed as well. bring the sensors/switches back to the controller, let it manage the work and intellegence.
 
I think part of my hitch is that I look at wireless as a solution when wires aren't available. I just feel there's less potential for problems if I can wire things straight from A to B. Less possibility of failure. Might be a bit of a dated hesitation.
I'm also a novice at this so maybe it would just be much easer to go with insteon  or zwave.
 
 
What other systems are out there for automation, with particular on the lighting component?
 
 

There are several hard wired lighting systems available, however for DIY install, you may want to take a look at Centralite Elegance and HAI Omni-bus.

At least take a look at UPB Universal Serial Bus system. I can only speak from my personal experience but it works great here and requires no special wiring at all.
 
Mike.

picta said:

There are several hard wired lighting systems available, however for DIY install, you may want to take a look at Centralite Elegance and HAI Omni-bus.

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Wow, I wasn't familiar with HAI Omni-bus, so I took a quick look. Single gang basic switches run about $115 for the switch (USA, Amazon price). Then you need to add the switch controller hardware and I assume a load control device? And you need to run low voltage wire to switch and controller, then high voltage to the fixtures? Or would you run low voltage lighting all around at that point?

The problem with your commercial systems, I suspect, is that the switch prices, even for low voltage are going to be at or well above your $50/device price.

If you only plan on few controlled loads, the wired system will be 2X of the wireless, it gets better with more loads. My system controls 100+ loads, and the cost per device plus 2 buttons per each device comes to ~$100. This is regardless of whether the device is a dimmer or switch, as those are configurable. The functionality of the commercial system is much better than of any wireless. You also get a ton of cheap control buttons that can operate any load, not the case with keypads on any wireless system.

Wow costly. An Omni-bus 4 channel relay is $149 on amazon, that's $37/channel. Plus switch, that's back to $50/device. insteon isn't looking as unattractive as it was... I guess I I'm having a hard time wondering why I can get an 8 channel relay board for $50 when it's general purpose but din rail lighting purpose stuff seems 5x that much. Thanks for the suggestions. I see a board by Lyntec that is a general load controller, not purpose built for dimming etc.

I would suggest UPB, which requires no separate wiring, and won't devalue the cost of your house when it comes time to sell.  Also, I certainly would check with your building inspector before controlling lights with relays in the panel. It most likely isn't allowed.

gumbudah said:

Wow costly. An Omni-bus 4 channel relay is $149 on amazon, that's $37/channel. Plus switch, that's back to $50/device. insteon isn't looking as unattractive as it was... I guess I I'm having a hard time wondering why I can get an 8 channel relay board for $50 when it's general purpose but din rail lighting purpose stuff seems 5x that much. Thanks for the suggestions. I see a board by Lyntec that is a general load controller, not purpose built for dimming etc.

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The commercial lighting system is built to conform to various codes and carries multiple certifications, that would allow you to legally install it, but it adds to the cost. If you are looking for a budget install, you'll have to go with consumer grade. UPB is somewhat in between, it is more reliable than most consumer wireless tech, but it is not cheap. PCS Pulseworx has good quality devices.

Take a look at http://www.loxone.com. Not cheap but not high-end either. They have their own dimmers. I'm using with DMX Extension and http://www.dfd.com/pdf/dmx12dimELV-JBOX-data.pdf in a new home this year.
 
IMO, $50 each is unrealistic. I have Insteon now and its more than that. I looked for "better" for a long time before finding Loxone. It isn't perfect but IMO better than RF or powerline and it doesn't cost as much as typical commercial systems.

Please look at the equipment to make sure it is UL, or CA or ETL approved, so for resale you won't have an issue.
Many DIY 8 load relay modules (especially from China) have no approvals.
Be aware.

If you go with smart switches everywhere your cost may be around $50 per switch.

If you go with a centralised wiring scheme each switch/relay will cost you more than that.

Whatever method you use, it will always be centralised intelligence of control.

Depending on the home area, people will avoid buying your house with any automation system in it. many will demand it ripped out before considering buying it. After buyng they may consider putting their own system in then.

HA is a hobby project and who wants somebody else's problems. Hobbiests want to create their own challenges.

jeditekunum said:

Take a look at http://www.loxone.com. Not cheap but not high-end either. They have their own dimmers. I'm using with DMX Extension and http://www.dfd.com/pdf/dmx12dimELV-JBOX-data.pdf in a new home this year.
 
IMO, $50 each is unrealistic. I have Insteon now and its more than that. I looked for "better" for a long time before finding Loxone. It isn't perfect but IMO better than RF or powerline and it doesn't cost as much as typical commercial systems.

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Looks pretty expensive, on par with HAI systems, similar configuration and likely a good quality. DMX extension is unique, if you are into LED lights. For regular loads, I would recommend Elegance.

from westcojack: The UL listing/code legality is why I'm digging into this a little more. I'd love to cobble together some parts for $8 each using a Raspberry Pi or something but it seems like I'd put a lot of work into it, then at some point (maybe 5 years) want/need to move and have to strip it all out/change it in order to pass a home inspection.
On a little separate note,  I'm thinking a component of the design should be to somewhat separate the "long term stable" hardware like 110vac wires, 110vac boxes, can lights, breakers, relays from the "not so long term" components like controllers, servers. I can see where a person could build a house, put in call can lights, homerun the light power, the switch line, tie them together via a relay, this might last 30 years, then have the "smart" piece, the controller, Ethernet, as separate devices that can be changed out every 5ish years as they get better and better or remove the relay and tie the switch directly to the light if no automation is wanted. it doesn't seem like the concept of 110vac wiring, romex, relays are going away. seems like they have some staying power left.

I have 23 individually controlled light sets in my one Gathering room. Good luck with that copper heap.
 
Oh yeah.... 21 of those lights can do 256 colours and all levels of brilliance with them for various moods and festive themes. How many more 14/2 cables would that take?

Last year a New Zealand automator documented using LV arduinios / wireless for HV light switches on the Homeseer forum.
 
It worked out fine for him.
 
I am a bit leary though with tinkering with HV and LV in the same wall box. 
 
All this depends on the OP and whether the want to do this is there. 
 
It is understood that the sure bet methodology of automating lighting is the wired LV to HV controller.
 
That said as mentioned above and relating to UPB.  It is easy and it works.  Each switch is a little computer and the software for programming these switches is free (Upstart).  You already have HV everywhere in the home and powerline on steroids takes advantage of this.  Well and wire the home lighting conventional style. 
 
Use of and methodologies of wireless works but wireless in general is magical still today.