Anyone want to guess where automation is going?

I put in my M1G in 2012.  I had to replace some smokes that were defective, but otherwise it is still going strong, everything works.
 
I was just updating some rules for lighting in prep for a vacation and it brings up something I think about every year or so....
 
I only put UPB controllers on a few light circuits as a test, then decided that all the lighting automation changes are happening so fast I would wait a bit.
 
That's been the state now for the last 5 years, and I still have only a few lights controlled and would like to put in a lot more.
 
The UPB switches have gone UP in price in that time, whereas everything else automation wise keeps coming down.  I'd like to get a dozen or so switches so the cost is not insignificant.
 
Are we yet on the edge of a breakthrough, so that automation controllers, specifically lighting controllers, are changing?   Getting more standardized (no sign of that I could see)?  
 
Getting cheaper? 
 
The M1G doesn't seem to have changed in that time either, so maybe this is a question whether I should be punting on the whole concept and using a different automation controller? 
 
Which is another worry, the M1G seems rather long in the tooth for something electronic, and I haven't seen anything or anyone stepping up to replace it? 
 
If I am tired of setting on the fence, where would you leap -- toward UPB and the M1G, or away toward something more modern?   (And if so what?   And can it tie to M1G?)
 

I'm really not sure what people expect to appear in home automation that doesn't exist today? Do you want a robot to walk around your house and control the lights and thermostat?  Everything in my house is automated and has been for many years. Drapes, lights, temp, main water valve, locks, etc. All my doors, windows and gates and driveway are monitored. I'm not sure what is left to automate.  I know they make automated washers and stoves and refrigerators, but I don't see why. Everything is controlled with rules and I can monitor everything anywhere in the world.  So you have to tell us, what piece of automation isn't here yet.
 
I also use UPB and it works great. I think maybe one of my 65 switches has failed in 10 years. It is proven technology, but if you don't like powerline control there is wireless, Zigbee, Wi-Fi, Z-wave.  If anything there is too much stuff out there.  The only "new" thing they could invest is color control in each switch, but like 3D TV, I wouldn't be a big fan. 
 
As always, if the home automation products exist to do what you want today, why not use them? Personally I don't care if something is "better" than UPB because UPB works great.  And if some startup can to me wanting me to invest in a product to replace UPB, I'd say why? 
 
You definitely should not be waiting unless there is something specific that you are waiting for. And as you have seen with UPB, prices can go up.

I hear lots of remote control but I don't think I heard anything about Home Automation, except maybe the robot. Wait! Robots are not automated, just more remote control.
 
I would be sure most of us have a thermostat. That is real automation.  Maybe you use an occupancy driven light switch, that only comes on during dark times? Combining logic? That's automation, not a bunch of manually operated devices that you operate from a distance.

It's still very much automation if that manual control kicks of a sequence of events, many of which are controlled by examining the state of the system and doing appropriate things in response. 
 
This is an ongoing misconception that a lot of people seem to have. There's automation and there's autonomous. They are really separate things. You can have automation that is invoked manually or autonomously. And you can have autonomously invoked actions that are essentially just a remote control driven by some event like motion, i.e. it just flips a switch instead of you flipping a switch yourself. 

LarrylLix said:

I hear lots of remote control but I don't think I heard anything about Home Automation, except maybe the robot. Wait! Robots are not automated, just more remote control.
 
I would be sure most of us have a thermostat. That is real automation.  Maybe you use an occupancy driven light switch, that only comes on during dark times? Combining logic? That's automation, not a bunch of manually operated devices that you operate from a distance.

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Actually mine is pretty sophisticated.  Every morning my Omni determines what the high temp for the day will be and it calculates how low to precool my house, so when the rates go up at noon, the AC stops. AC isn't used, and at 7pm, the temp is within one degree of my setting. Every hour it does check the temps and run the AC if it has too, but its VERY rare it ever needs to.  Weekends and holidays it runs a different schedule and it actually has a database of holidays where high rates don't apply. All the drapes and blinds are tied in as well, so they close on the hottest days. I haven't touched a thermostat in years. Lights, drapes locks are rarely touched as operate when needed.  Far from "remote control" and all done with Omni programming. How does it all work? It actually measures how good it does each day and it adjusts. What temperature to set the thermostat and when are completely calculated by the system. Over time its gotten very good. I am one of the FEW people really doing home automation AI. I calculate it saves me around $800 off my summer electric bill.
 
You will find the more home automation is customized, like mine is, the harder sell it is for installers because it takes LOTS of time to customize it. Mines taken years. Also if I ever sold my house, I'd have to rip it all out because home automation really isn't transferable.  That is still a BIG problem.
 
My smart house definition has always been a house that calculates and determines EVERYTHING itself. So if the OP is waiting for AI home automation, the wait is over because YOU can do it but it takes work. Its not something your going to be able to buy off the shelf unfortunately.

Anyone want to guess where automation is going?
no
 
It's a hobby here and I personally enjoy it.  I do not do this to please anyone but myself. 
 
Are we yet on the edge of a breakthrough, so that automation controllers, specifically lighting controllers, are changing?   Getting more standardized (no sign of that I could see)?
 
No.  The are multiple types of automated light switches and there are more today in 2017 than there was in 1978. 
 
Getting cheaper?
 
No. 
 
Automation of lightning involves a spend of monies.  That is the way it is. 
 
The M1G doesn't seem to have changed in that time either, so maybe this is a question whether I should be punting on the whole concept and using a different automation controller?
 
If I am tired of setting on the fence, where would you leap -- toward UPB and the M1G, or away toward something more modern?   (And if so what?   And can it tie to M1G?)
 
Yes look for something or some controller that matches what the Elk panel does and can do. 
 
You won't find anything. 
 
 
Here primary spend on light switches has been with UPB over the last few years.  
 
I didn't wait for an opportune time.  Just did it. 
 
Concurrently over the last few years have purchased  / tested Insteon, Zigbee and Z-Wave to tinker with. 

My M1G panel is almost 15 years old. And it works just as well today as 15 years ago. But my automation system has expanded greatly over the years, and I would have lost all the joy if I was "sitting on the fence" for newer and better. If your UPB switches work currently in your settings, then add more UPB switches, get more sensors and add more rules over time.
 
IMO, the home automation will remain as it is now for a foreseeable future. You can choose between professional install like crestron/savant, build your own DIY system on Elk/HAI and similar, or go mainstream consumer rout with the likes of wink/homekit/google home etc.

ano said:

Actually mine is pretty sophisticated.  Every morning my Omni determines what the high temp for the day will be and it calculates how low to precool my house, so when the rates go up at noon, the AC stops. AC isn't used, and at 7pm, the temp is within one degree of my setting. Every hour it does check the temps and run the AC if it has too, but its VERY rare it ever needs to.  Weekends and holidays it runs a different schedule and it actually has a database of holidays where high rates don't apply. All the drapes and blinds are tied in as well, so they close on the hottest days. I haven't touched a thermostat in years. Lights, drapes locks are rarely touched as operate when needed.  Far from "remote control" and all done with Omni programming. How does it all work? It actually measures how good it does each day and it adjusts. What temperature to set the thermostat and when are completely calculated by the system. Over time its gotten very good. I am one of the FEW people really doing home automation AI. I calculate it saves me around $800 off my summer electric bill.

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That's impressive!  Your house must be well insulated.  Where does the Omni get the daily high temp information?  You did most (all?) of the programming for that cooling logic in the Omni?

Linwood said:

Are we yet on the edge of a breakthrough, so that automation controllers, specifically lighting controllers, are changing?   Getting more standardized (no sign of that I could see)?  
 
Getting cheaper? 
 
The M1G doesn't seem to have changed in that time either, so maybe this is a question whether I should be punting on the whole concept and using a different automation controller? 
 
Which is another worry, the M1G seems rather long in the tooth for something electronic, and I haven't seen anything or anyone stepping up to replace it? 
 
If I am tired of setting on the fence, where would you leap -- toward UPB and the M1G, or away toward something more modern?   (And if so what?   And can it tie to M1G?)

Click to expand...

 
I don't see a lot going on in the controller market.  There seems to have been a push for some cloud-based control, but I think that's cooled off a bit.  I would bet that the next big push will be from Google Home, Amazon's Alexa, and Apple's Homepod to be the center of the controlled home.  These are great remote controls, but they aren't automation controllers by themselves.
 
If the M1G is working, then I'd keep it until you hit the limit of its capabilities or it fails.  Build it out and enjoy it.
 
If I had to replace my system today (an Omni Pro II and UPB light switches), I'd probably just use OpenHab, a generic alarm system, and Philips Hue bulbs everywhere. 

Thanks everyone for sharing the thoughts.  I work in the computer field, and it is unusual for any technology to last long, so something like the UPB switches and Elk scare me by their age, not by any specific lack.  The UPB switches work perfectly, I have no issues with the ones I have.  But honestly $60 or so for a switch is a lot when you think about their actual hardware costs.  I just keep wondering if I won't wake up one day and find $10 wifi switches with opensource software.
 
But I think people are right, I should stop thinking about it and just install what is working. 
 
Thanks for being a sounding board.
 
Thermostats -- the story about pre-cool is interesting, I have wondered if that would not help (I have a block house and concrete roof so a lot of heat buffer).  Maybe that should be the next thing.

The cheap, open switches are here now, well $15 ones anyway. I haven't tried the wall switches, but the inlines work great when reflashed with Tasmota firmware.
https://www.itead.cc/smart-home/sonoff-touch.html

Terry


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I wouldn't worry too much about the age of the platform of the M1 or the OP II, but what is concerning is the lack of continuous improvement on the security side of the hardware and the lack of true updates or expansion of the offerings, but it's also the pattern that has started in the security industry as a whole.
 
The model of pro installation will always exist, but the erosion and saturation of the market of "me too" has hurt the industry. I have no problem with an end user installing whatever they wish, but slapping in a wireless controller as fast as you can (all in one especially, like 2Gig or the Lynx mass market products) then a couple controlled switches and maybe a T-stat and calling it a "smart home" or automated...it's not. It's affected both the security industry and the automation/convenience segment of that market. A poor installation or deployment will always cause a black eye to the end user.

DELInstallations said:

I wouldn't worry too much about the age of the platform of the M1 or the OP II, but what is concerning is the lack of continuous improvement on the security side of the hardware and the lack of true updates or expansion of the offerings, but it's also the pattern that has started in the security industry as a whole.
 
The model of pro installation will always exist, but the erosion and saturation of the market of "me too" has hurt the industry. I have no problem with an end user installing whatever they wish, but slapping in a wireless controller as fast as you can (all in one especially, like 2Gig or the Lynx mass market products) then a couple controlled switches and maybe a T-stat and calling it a "smart home" or automated...it's not. It's affected both the security industry and the automation/convenience segment of that market. A poor installation or deployment will always cause a black eye to the end user.

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The problem even with pro installations is that the surface area of exposed threats has grown remarkably, to the point where even dedicated I.T. professionals struggle (and fail) to keep up, much less someone whose primary job is running wires and programming panels (and sales). With haste to market and dodgy imports it is hard to imagine that vendor support will save the day either.  Add to that the reticence to pull wires, and explosion of wireless options (and cloud and phone apps) and I think "security" is so far from the top of the priority list it is ridiculous.
 
What should happen though is that price pressure should allow the parts that can be assembled into a reasonable system to drop.  I have security cameras.  They were really cheap as they are part of the web/cloud/app craze.  But mine are hardwired with no internet access in either direction; careful use means one can capitalize on ill conceived designs if you pay attention.
 
That's one reason I asked -- that price pressure does not seem to be hitting the automation market in the likes of UPB.  I really expected by now they would be half their price from 2013, or compatible clones at a quarter of their price.

Many people disparage the lowly serial cable, but if you have an automation controller that only talks serially to the important devices, then your security cross section, from the automation system point of view, is vastly reduced. It's a point to point connection and cannot be hijacked from the outside. Those serially controlled devices can then of course control other things via wireless (not wifi) protocols, like Zigbee or Lutron's wireless scheme. Use all 'dumb' devices for the important stuff so that they have no means to access the network.
 
Yes, if someone wants to camp outside your house they make get into those, but that's very unlikely and a factional worry compared to network security concerns, where the whole world gets to attack you. And, if someone did, they wouldn't get into the network via those wireless protocols. 
 
So you are down to protecting the automation controller basically, which allows you to concentrate on a single point of entry. Still not trivial, but a lot easier than the entire home. Make it a dedicated machine, put it on its own sub-net with incoming connections only explicitly allowed by MAC from your known touch screens to specific required ports of which there would be very few, etc.. You might lose the rest of the network to a hacker, but the automation controller would likely survive unscathed. 
 
Nothing is absolute, but those things would probably make your automation system difficult enough that only someone specifically out to get you would take the time, relative to the wide open house at the next IP address. Unless you are an undercover agent or drug lord, it's unlikely anyone (with sufficient tech savvy) is going to be specifically out to get you. Maybe the drunk at the bar you got in a fight with works for the NSA, but it's unlikely.

ano said:

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The only "new" thing they could invest is color control in each switch, but like 3D TV, I wouldn't be a big fan.

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You may be surprised. I have a bunch of LIFX bulbs (Wifi control) and aside from the lack of a proper control method, which I'll explain in a moment,  the hardware is very cool. I used to be very happy with X-10, then Insteon, and finally Zwave. Control-wise, I found Zwave to be perfect for my situation since I rent and usually avoid any installations that are too complicated. I haven't found a good solutiuon for control of the LIFX bulbs yet, though I have been using my Vera Plus to automate them to an extent. I'm sure there exists some switch type of solution, but I'm waiting until I can find something that will allow me to use more features than just on/off and dimming/brightening. In the meantime, I have to use my mobile phone to control them, which is far from ideal. It's been suggested that I use an "Alexa", but the thought of having open mics in my home bothers me.
The colors of these bulbs are phenomenal. Their brightness is excellent, too. Couple that with the fact that you can control each bulb without shelling out for an $80 switch and it's a pretty good deal.
 
Like I said, you may be surprised at what you are missing out on. I was amazed at how much atmosphere light color can add to a room in my home (16 million colors to choose from). Even subtle changes like the ability to choose between 1000 shades of white make a big difference. My favorite feature at the moment is building "scenes". I've set up a routine that consists of several scenes, timed to change over about an hour, simulating a sunrise. The routine can be triggered by my alarm clock app on my Android phone.
Even a sunset schedule helps me to gear down before bed.
 
I have programs set to flash my lights different colors, depending on the event. Blue for an email received, magenta for a text received, green for an incoming phone call, red for the doorbell being activated, etc.  I would say that these bulbs are far more than a gimmick -- they have made a real and substantial difference in my life. You should pick one up to experiment. They aren't dirt cheap, but they aren't expensive for what they are, either, IMO.