Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

ELK 930 and SkybellHD


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 automan7832

automan7832

    Newbie

  • Registered
  • Pip
  • 6 posts

Posted 05 April 2018 - 08:06 PM

I have a bit of a unique situation that has me pulling my hair out. I have a Skybell HD video doorbell that I need to trigger an ELK 930 in order for a Euro Style chime to be activated. The chime itself is very simple, the 16v line connects to terminals to power the device, then a doorbell is wired in-series on two separate terminals. When the door-bell button loop is closed, it completes the circuit and the bell rings. However, I am unable to wire the doorbell like you normally would through the chime terminals due to the Skybell needing constant power which makes the chime constantly ring. The goal is to have the Skybell powered by the transformer through the 930 terminals, and when pressed, the 930 will close its' contact thus triggering the chime. The problem is, the Skybell doesn't create the 900ma trigger to activate the 930. I am have had this issue in a few customers homes since these chimes seem to be becoming more popular. 

 

 

Any suggestions? I figure you could use a resistor to help increase the Skybell current draw but I am getting a little out of my depth...

 

 

The chime being used is a Zamel DNT-222



#2 RAL

RAL

    Cocoonut

  • Registered
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1782 posts
  • Location:Rhinebeck, NY
  • Experience:average
  • Hardware:Elk M1
  • Tech:X10-PLC
  • Phone:POTS

Posted 05 April 2018 - 08:35 PM

The 930 senses current flow, but isn't meant to create a load that draws current by itself.  I think you've figured that part out.

 

What you need is a resistor that replaces the load that the chime would normally create - something that will draw a bit over 900mA.

 

Assuming you have a 16V transformer,  a 15 ohm resistor should do the trick.  Just wire it in series with the transformer, Skybell and 930, as if the resistor were the chime.

 

To be on the safe side, you should use a high power resistor of 25W or more. Should the doorbell ever get stuck in the "on"position, it's going to generate a good amount of heat.  A smaller wattage resistor would burn out.

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015Z18EO2

 

How do you plan on having the 930 trigger the Zamell chime?  The 930 has an open collector output, which may not be compatible with the chime.  I don't know what the chime's input circuitry looks like, but to be safe, you could use the 930 to trigger an Elk 924 relay, which in turn could activate the chime.


Edited by RAL, 05 April 2018 - 09:55 PM.


#3 automan7832

automan7832

    Newbie

  • Registered
  • Pip
  • 6 posts

Posted 08 April 2018 - 08:20 PM

Correct, I am using 16V to power everything. I gave it another go with the exact resistor you mentioned (happened to have a big pack of them) and no dice. 

 

My thought was to use the open collector input to close the doorbell terminal on the back of the chime, thus causing it to ring. This electronics on the chime are pretty simple....power in, then the button terminal completes the circuit. When I short the open collector input, the chime rings so perhaps it's not staying shorted long enough. 

 

How would you suggest I wire the 924 in conjunction with the 930?



#4 RAL

RAL

    Cocoonut

  • Registered
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1782 posts
  • Location:Rhinebeck, NY
  • Experience:average
  • Hardware:Elk M1
  • Tech:X10-PLC
  • Phone:POTS

Posted 08 April 2018 - 11:23 PM

If the Zarnell chime runs on 16VAC, it may not be happy with an open collector output trying to drive its input.  The open collector output only passes DC current, and not AC.

 

The Elk 924 relay needs 12VDC to power it, so you'll need a 12VDC wall wart, unless you already have 12VDC available elsewhere.  The 924 doesn't draw much current, so any wall wart that can deliver 100mA or more will do. 

 

The 930 output pulls to ground when the doorbell button is pressed.  So the circuit requires a pullup resistor to hold the output high.  This gets connected to the -T input of the 924 so that the relay will close when the 930's output goes low.   The value of the pullup resistor isn't too critical.   It needs to be greater than 500 ohms, and can be as large as 2400 ohms.   Current is low, so a 1/4W resistor should be fine.

 

Here's a diagram of how to hook it up. index.php?app=gallery&module=images&sect



#5 automan7832

automan7832

    Newbie

  • Registered
  • Pip
  • 6 posts

Posted 17 April 2018 - 07:34 PM

Am I supposed to wire the skybell in-series with the same resistor as before correct? I tried the way that you described with the skybell wired in-series, as before, and it was constantly ringing the chime. Any ideas as to what I'm doing wrong? I even played around with different resistors a bit and had the same issue. 

 

Also, the Zamel chime accepts 16vAC, then converts it to dc so the chime motor and door bell button contacts are all DC. With that in mind, I would think that simply wiring everything per your first response would work...especially since shorting the "out and neg" causes the Zamel chime to ring. Am I on the wrong train of thought there? It's almost like it's just not drawing enough current to trigger the 930...

 

Thanks for all your help. 



#6 RAL

RAL

    Cocoonut

  • Registered
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1782 posts
  • Location:Rhinebeck, NY
  • Experience:average
  • Hardware:Elk M1
  • Tech:X10-PLC
  • Phone:POTS

Posted 17 April 2018 - 10:06 PM

Here's a  more complete diagram of what I envisioned.  I've shown two AC transformers, one for the Skybell and one for the actual chime.  I don't know how much power your chime requires in terms of Volt-Amps, but it's possible that between the load resistor on the Elk 930 input, and the chime itself, that a small transformer would be overloaded.  The load resistor requires about 17VA.

 

If you have it wired this way, and it doesn't work, here are some things to check:

 

Make sure you have the 930 output connected to the -T (minus T) input on the 924 and not the +T input.

 

Make sure you're using the N/O output of the 924 to the chime, and not the N/C output.

 

If the chime is ringing constantly, disconnect the Skybell and see if the chime stops.  Then, short the two wires momentarily and see if the chime rings.  If so, then it would seem that the 930 and 924 are wired properly and working properly.  

 

My conclusion then would be that the Skybell draws more power when idle (i.e. when the button is not pressed) than the 930 can tolerate.  A way to deal with this might be to split the power path through two resistors, one that the 930 monitors, and a second one that bypasses the 930.  The trick will be figuring out if there are resistor values that will allow that to work.

 

Do you happen to have an AC clamp-on ammeter?  It would help to know how much current the Skybell draws.

 

index.php?app=gallery&module=images&sect


Edited by RAL, 17 April 2018 - 10:08 PM.


#7 automan7832

automan7832

    Newbie

  • Registered
  • Pip
  • 6 posts

Posted 25 April 2018 - 07:51 PM

The clamp on reader reads .13amps being drawn when only the skybell is wired to the transformer

Edited by automan7832, 25 April 2018 - 07:51 PM.


#8 RAL

RAL

    Cocoonut

  • Registered
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1782 posts
  • Location:Rhinebeck, NY
  • Experience:average
  • Hardware:Elk M1
  • Tech:X10-PLC
  • Phone:POTS

Posted 25 April 2018 - 09:32 PM

The clamp on reader reads .13amps being drawn when only the skybell is wired to the transformer

 

Ok, that's a good number to know.  It seems low enough that it shouldn't cause the 930 to trigger, since Elk claims it takes 900mA.

 

Did you try the other test I mentioned in my last post, of removing the Skybell and just testing things without it, as if you had a normal doorbell button in the circuit?  That would show whether everything else is working as it should.



#9 automan7832

automan7832

    Newbie

  • Registered
  • Pip
  • 6 posts

Posted 15 May 2018 - 07:57 PM

Sorry it's been so long since I've taken another crack at this. I really appreciate your help. 

 

I wired everything up again, per your diagram, and I no longer have the constant ringing issue and the skybell powers up as it should. . However, I can still not get the Skybell to trip the 930. With everything hooked up, I short the "out" and "neg" terminals on the 930 and everything works how it should. Does this mean that the resistor in series with the skybell is not large enough?



#10 RAL

RAL

    Cocoonut

  • Registered
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1782 posts
  • Location:Rhinebeck, NY
  • Experience:average
  • Hardware:Elk M1
  • Tech:X10-PLC
  • Phone:POTS

Posted 15 May 2018 - 11:05 PM

Sorry it's been so long since I've taken another crack at this. I really appreciate your help. 

 

I wired everything up again, per your diagram, and I no longer have the constant ringing issue and the skybell powers up as it should. . However, I can still not get the Skybell to trip the 930. With everything hooked up, I short the "out" and "neg" terminals on the 930 and everything works how it should. Does this mean that the resistor in series with the skybell is not large enough?

 

What happens if you disconnect the Skybell and short the wires together, as if it was just a plain old doorbell button that was being pressed?  With the 15 ohm resistor in there, that should cause the 930 to trip.  If the 930 doesn't trip when you do that, then something isn't right.  It would also be helpful if you can measure the voltage between the NEG and OUT terminals of the 930 when you short the doorbell button wires.



#11 automan7832

automan7832

    Newbie

  • Registered
  • Pip
  • 6 posts

Posted 16 May 2018 - 09:01 AM

Good news, the doorbell just worked successfully!!

 

When I initially hooked up all of these components I must have done something wrong because the 924 was tripping constantly. I was messing around with resistors of greater values and forgot to remove one of them from the setup when I tested it again last night. I just swapped the higher ohm resistor for the 15 ohm one and it worked like a charm!

 

Now, my question is...do I need to place all of these components in a box or can they sit in the wall cavity by themselves? The wall cavity is uninsulated. 



#12 RAL

RAL

    Cocoonut

  • Registered
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1782 posts
  • Location:Rhinebeck, NY
  • Experience:average
  • Hardware:Elk M1
  • Tech:X10-PLC
  • Phone:POTS

Posted 16 May 2018 - 01:04 PM

Glad you got it working!  

 

I would put the components in a project box of some sort, rather than just let them dangle in space (what we used to call a cloud circuit).  It would be best to locate the box in a place where it can be accessed easily, even if it mean running some extra wire, rather than leaving it in a wall cavity where no one knows it's there.  I'm not sure if placing it in the wall cavity would violate electrical code.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users