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Elk M1 Gold - Random False Alarms


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#1 YannD

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 09:32 PM

Hi,

 

New install of M1Gold had been humming along nicely for about 3 months.  All of a sudden, I got random zone violations on two particular zones.  They would be rapidly repeating (several in one minute).  All zones are hard-wired.

 

The first repeated zone violation (alarm) was on a door.  I disabled it and a couple of days later, reenabled it and no problems with it since (5 months now).

 

Now, another hard-wired zone gives false triggers to the monitoring company (6 in 30 minutes).  Client is demanding a fix, but I'm not sure WHAT to fix?!

 

Here's the latest from the log:


3 Fri 7/13/18 15:46 1 1003 - BURGLAR ALARM ANY AREA Bath 3 Window (zn 5)

4 Fri 7/13/18 15:46 1 1146 - RESTOR BURGLAR ZONE Bath 3 Window (zn 5)

5 Fri 7/13/18 15:46 1 1003 - BURGLAR ALARM ANY AREA Bath 3 Window (zn 5)

6 Fri 7/13/18 15:46 1 1146 - RESTOR BURGLAR ZONE Bath 3 Window (zn 5)

7 Fri 7/13/18 15:46 1 1003 - BURGLAR ALARM ANY AREA Bath 3 Window (zn 5)

8 Fri 7/13/18 15:46 1 1146 - RESTOR BURGLAR ZONE Bath 3 Window (zn 5)

9 Fri 7/13/18 15:46 1 1003 - BURGLAR ALARM ANY AREA Bath 3 Window (zn 5)

10 Fri 7/13/18 15:46 1 1146 - RESTOR BURGLAR ZONE Bath 3 Window (zn 5)

11 Fri 7/13/18 15:46 1 1003 - BURGLAR ALARM ANY AREA Bath 3 Window (zn 5)

12 Fri 7/13/18 15:46 1 1146 - RESTOR BURGLAR ZONE Bath 3 Window (zn 5)

13 Fri 7/13/18 15:46 1 1003 - BURGLAR ALARM ANY AREA Bath 3 Window (zn 5)

14 Fri 7/13/18 15:46 1 1173 - AREA ARMED Yann (User 1)

 

All wiring rings out clean.  I did notice though, that when viewing the status screen Voltage reads average 7.1 to 7.2.  This one zone averages between 7.7 and 7.8.  Not sure if that could be an issue, but it's the only abnormality that I can see.   I thank you in advance for any help.  y

Firmware 5.3.10.



#2 RAL

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 10:16 PM

My first thought is that the quick repetition of the alarm events leads me to think it might be a bad connection somewhere in the zone wiring.  The higher than normal voltage may be suspicious, too, depending on your configuration. 

 

I take it you are using EOL resistors?  

 

Just a single resistor per zone (3-state) or two resistors (4-state) ?

 

For a 3-state configuration, a voltage between 4.0 and 8.8V is ok.  But for 4-state, anything above 7.3V would be an alarm condition.

 

Did you measure the 7.8V when the system was in normal state, or under alarm condition?  You'd really like to see it while it is triggering an alarm, but of course, if it is a split-second event, it's unlikely that you'll catch that.

 

Are you sure you have the Zone Type configured correctly (Type 0 or Type 4 depending on the number of EOL resistors)?

 

An easy thing to do is check all the screw-down terminals for the zone wiring and make sure they are all nice and tight.  Especially anywhere you might have more than one wire on a single terminal.

 

Have you measured the power supply voltage when the system is armed to see if it is up around 13.5V? 

 

I'm wondering if you might have too high a load on the power supply, causing it to become flaky.  Have you done a current draw calculation?



#3 mikefamig

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Posted 04 August 2018 - 09:09 AM

After ruling out an over-load of the panel power supply as RAL suggested there s a quick easy way to tell if it is a wiring/switch problem. Just temporarily swap the 2 wires from this zone with the adjacent zone at the panel to see if the problem follows the wires.
 
Mike.

Edited by mikefamig, 04 August 2018 - 09:10 AM.


#4 mikefamig

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Posted 04 August 2018 - 10:34 AM

In the few years that I've had my Elk installed I've had two occurrences of recurring false alarms and both times it turned out to be a bad window sensor. The point is that sensors do fail.

 

Mike.



#5 YannD

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 01:50 PM

Hi Mike & RAL,

 

Thank you both very much for the prompt replies!  I'm sorry for the delay but Cocoontech wouldn't let me reply for a while since I am a new user!  Ugh.

 

At any rate, great information, thank you.  I have not yet replaced sensors, and thought I'd start with voltage reads to hopefully narrow this down.  RAL, you stated about 13.5v when armed.  When I test the screw terminals at the M1Gold power connection, I get Unarmed = 18.68v and Armed at 18.62v.  Too high?

 

Here are readings from some of the sensors:

                        Armed   Violated

Motion Kitchen    7.1          13.6    Never had a problem with this one, took the reading for comparison.

Motion Hallway   7.3            13.8    Never had a problem with this one, took the reading for comparison.

Motion Bath 3     7.3            13.8    Never had a problem with this one, took the reading for comparison.

Bath 3 Window   7.7            13.6    This is one that is giving me constant problems

Motion Bath 2     7.3            13.9    This is one that is giving me constant problems

Motion Media     7.3             13.8    This is one that is giving me constant problems

 

Yes, I am using EOL resistors.  3-state.  And yes, I am stating Type 0 for Zone Type.  I have not done a current draw calculation!  Now that you ask, it seems that anything after 2 reeds is overloading the system?  That doesn't seem right.  What am I missing?

 

I will next swamp wires as suggested.

 

Thanks again for any help.

 

Best,

 

Yann

 



#6 RAL

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 02:40 PM

I think you are measuring 18.6V on the terminals where the AC transformer connects, correct?  If so, that's perfectly fine.  When I said "power supply voltage" I really meant the DC voltage that you can measure at the VAUX terminals.  From your other measurements of the zone voltages, that sounds like it is ok, too, at about 13.6V.

 

Reed switches, such as those on doors and windows don't put a load on the power supply.   I was wondering what else you might have connected to the M1's DC power output VAUX and SAUX.  Also keypads, and input and output expanders (M1XIN, M1XOUT), ethernet adapter, etc.

 

Based on what you have reported so far, Mike's suggestion of swapping zones around is the next thing to try.



#7 mikefamig

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 03:57 PM

Yes, I am using EOL resistors.  3-state.  And yes, I am stating Type 0 for Zone Type.  I have not done a current draw calculation!  Now that you ask, it seems that anything after 2 reeds is overloading the system?  That doesn't seem right.  What am I missing?

 

Yann

Yann

 

The M1 panel is powered by 16vac but that AC voltage is converted to approx 12vdc. The M1 alarm and automation system components are all 12vdc circuits.

 

The load calculation that you want to perform is done by adding up all of the 12vdc loads that the panel supplies power to.

 

These include

 

keypads

input adapters

output adapters

wireless adapters

and any component that draws power from the M1 12vdc powder source.

 

Zone sensors ie window switches are powered by an input adapter or by the main panel and are not added to the calculation. The reason that they are not added is because the panel itself is measured in the load spreadsheet and it includes all sensors that are connected to it and input adapters are measured and they include all sensors connected to them. Adding in the sensors would be redundant.

 

Download the M1 current draw worksheet, it may clear things up a bit.

 

https://www.elkprodu...port_tools.html






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