Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

New Leviton devices at CES


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 neillt

neillt

    Dedicated Cocooner

  • Registered
  • PipPipPip
  • 410 posts
  • Experience:guru
  • Hardware:HAI OmniPro II
  • Tech:UPB, ZigBee, 1-Wire, RadioRA2
  • Audio:Russound

Posted 08 January 2019 - 09:52 AM

Welp,

 

Leviton is starting CES by doubling down on wifi decora, including a single gang dimmer with an Alexa enabled microphone/speaker inside...

 

https://www.leviton....eviton-ces-2019

 

Also looks like they have ramped up their cloud offering.  Not a single thing about Omni.

 

Sigh.



#2 ano

ano

    Cocoonut

  • Registered
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3428 posts
  • Location:AZ
  • Experience:guru
  • Hardware:HAI OmniPro II
  • Tech:UPB, ZigBee
  • Audio:HAI
  • Phone:Ooma

Posted 08 January 2019 - 12:34 PM

That's interesting. What do you think about that?  I'm guessing they have a good idea of what people want and they are responding.
 
I myself, aren't a big fan of Wi-Fi switches. Yes most people have a Wi-Fi access point so no added cost there, but I'm not sure I want to manage an extra 50 IP addresses. And with Alexa control there is a problem. When you have lots of switches in your house, each has to have a unique name. If you forget the name, your out-of-luck. Ex. if you have three Kitchen switches and you say Alexa turn off the Kitchen Switch, it will say, which one? Pretty frustrating. Getting Alexa to work good with many switches is a big task.
 
I have mainly UPB, but I bought two Zigbee wall switches from Seyas to test. So far, I'm impressed.
https://www.amazon.c...3147/ref=sr_1_5
 
The negative with Zigbee is not to many devices to pick. The positive is its not going anywhere; switch firmware can be updated over-the-air automatically; there is no limit on the number of devices; coverage expands as your network grows as its mesh; and security is good and only getting better. 
 
Can the firmware of the Leviton Wi-Fi switches be updated? Probably not, and that's a bit scary.

Edited by ano, 08 January 2019 - 12:53 PM.


#3 JonW

JonW

    Cocoonut

  • Registered
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1021 posts
  • Location:Huntington Beach, CA
  • Hardware:HAI OmniPro II
  • Tech:UPB

Posted 08 January 2019 - 01:10 PM

And with Alexa control there is a problem. When you have lots of switches in your house, each has to have a unique name. If you forget the name, your out-of-luck. Ex. if you have three Kitchen switches and you say Alexa turn off the Kitchen Switch, it will say, which one? Pretty frustrating. Getting Alexa to work good with many switches is a big task.
 

I've come across the "which one do you mean" issue a few times and it is frustrating.  However, I've found if I use the room name as part of the light, it is nearly 100% success.  Things like "Kitchen overhead lights", "Kitchen undercounter lights", "Kitchen buffet lights", etc.  Then when I just say "Alexa, turn off kitchen lights", it does it for the whole room.



#4 ano

ano

    Cocoonut

  • Registered
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3428 posts
  • Location:AZ
  • Experience:guru
  • Hardware:HAI OmniPro II
  • Tech:UPB, ZigBee
  • Audio:HAI
  • Phone:Ooma

Posted 08 January 2019 - 01:26 PM

I've come across the "which one do you mean" issue a few times and it is frustrating.  However, I've found if I use the room name as part of the light, it is nearly 100% success.  Things like "Kitchen overhead lights", "Kitchen undercounter lights", "Kitchen buffet lights", etc.  Then when I just say "Alexa, turn off kitchen lights", it does it for the whole room.

I don't know that. So are you saying that lights should always have a room name and then HAVE to have another name, and if you only use the room name, it does them all?  And this is without any grouping?
 
So maybe my problem is, I have "Kitchen Lights" and "Kitchen Sink Light"  where instead I should have "Kitchen Ceiling Lights" and "Kitchen Sink Light" and if I say, turn on Kitchen Lights, it will do both? 
 
That does sound simpler if it works.

I have noticed that Alexa doesn't use device type at all. I have "Front Door" which is the alarm contact for the front door. And "Front Door" which is the front door deadbolt. If I say Lock Front Door, it should figure I mean the lock because that is the only thing you can lock, but it says its confused because of two "front doors" So I had to name the front door lock "Front Door Lock." Now I have to ask "Is the front door lock locked?"

Edited by ano, 08 January 2019 - 01:34 PM.


#5 cobra

cobra

    Dedicated Cocooner

  • Registered
  • PipPipPip
  • 406 posts
  • Location:SouthEast PA, USA
  • Experience:average
  • Software:Custom
  • Tech:UPB, Z-Wave

Posted 08 January 2019 - 08:27 PM

That's interesting. What do you think about that?  I'm guessing they have a good idea of what people want and they are responding.
 
I myself, aren't a big fan of Wi-Fi switches. Yes most people have a Wi-Fi access point so no added cost there, but I'm not sure I want to manage an extra 50 IP addresses. And with Alexa control there is a problem. When you have lots of switches in your house, each has to have a unique name. If you forget the name, your out-of-luck. Ex. if you have three Kitchen switches and you say Alexa turn off the Kitchen Switch, it will say, which one? Pretty frustrating. Getting Alexa to work good with many switches is a big task.
 
I have mainly UPB, but I bought two Zigbee wall switches from Seyas to test. So far, I'm impressed.
https://www.amazon.c...3147/ref=sr_1_5
 
The negative with Zigbee is not to many devices to pick. The positive is its not going anywhere; switch firmware can be updated over-the-air automatically; there is no limit on the number of devices; coverage expands as your network grows as its mesh; and security is good and only getting better. 
 
Can the firmware of the Leviton Wi-Fi switches be updated? Probably not, and that's a bit scary.

 

Interesting switch...  I see it needs a hub, what are you using it with?  The HAI Zigbee hub doesn't count for Alexa, right?



#6 ano

ano

    Cocoonut

  • Registered
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3428 posts
  • Location:AZ
  • Experience:guru
  • Hardware:HAI OmniPro II
  • Tech:UPB, ZigBee
  • Audio:HAI
  • Phone:Ooma

Posted 09 January 2019 - 01:03 PM

I've come across the "which one do you mean" issue a few times and it is frustrating.  However, I've found if I use the room name as part of the light, it is nearly 100% success.  Things like "Kitchen overhead lights", "Kitchen undercounter lights", "Kitchen buffet lights", etc.  Then when I just say "Alexa, turn off kitchen lights", it does it for the whole room.

This sounds good, but I tried it and it does NOT work. I have Kitchen Ceiling Lights, Kitchen Spot Lights, Kitchen Sink Lights. "Alexa turn on Kitchen lights."  Her response "A few things share the name Kitchen Lights. Which one did you want?"


 

Interesting switch...  I see it needs a hub, what are you using it with?  The HAI Zigbee hub doesn't count for Alexa, right?

I use SmartThings, but any Zigbee hub will work.  Amazon has an Alexa device called the Echo Plus that contains a hub built-in, so an extra is not needed. I also use Zigbee with my OmniPro II so have two Zigbee networks running here. 

 

These switches are interesting because they don't need a neutral, BUT your lights must draw at least 12 watts for it to work.  They give you this 12 watt resister if you don't have enough power.

 

The switches can control one, two, or three separate circuits all in one switch. As a negative, they mount weird, and the switch IS THE switch plate cover.



#7 dgage

dgage

    Dedicated Cocooner

  • Registered
  • PipPipPip
  • 572 posts
  • Location:TN
  • Experience:average
  • Software:CQC
  • Tech:RadioRA2
  • Audio:Sonos
  • Video:Windows Media Center
  • Phone:Linksys PAP2

Posted 09 January 2019 - 02:44 PM

This sounds good, but I tried it and it does NOT work. I have Kitchen Ceiling Lights, Kitchen Spot Lights, Kitchen Sink Lights. "Alexa turn on Kitchen lights."  Her response "A few things share the name Kitchen Lights. Which one did you want?"
 
I use SmartThings, but any Zigbee hub will work.  Amazon has an Alexa device called the Echo Plus that contains a hub built-in, so an extra is not needed. I also use Zigbee with my OmniPro II so have two Zigbee networks running here. 
 
These switches are interesting because they don't need a neutral, BUT your lights must draw at least 12 watts for it to work.  They give you this 12 watt resister if you don't have enough power.
 
The switches can control one, two, or three separate circuits all in one switch. As a negative, they mount weird, and the switch IS THE switch plate cover.


Now setup a scene called Kitchen Lights or a phantom switch and include all of the kitchen lights on that. Then it will work as described.

#8 dgage

dgage

    Dedicated Cocooner

  • Registered
  • PipPipPip
  • 572 posts
  • Location:TN
  • Experience:average
  • Software:CQC
  • Tech:RadioRA2
  • Audio:Sonos
  • Video:Windows Media Center
  • Phone:Linksys PAP2

Posted 09 January 2019 - 02:47 PM

Regarding WiFi switches, I dont like this at all due to the number of devices already on a home network and the density of WiFi in condosor densely populated houses. I was thinking maybe you could run a separate complete network but density of other WiFi could interfere with that. I guess an alternative is to give 2.4 GHz over to Alexa and these sorts of things and keep primary human usage (laptops, tablets, phones) on the 5 GHz network.

I think Ill stick to RadioRa2 where I have rock solid stability. A little more expensive but I just cant see putting light switches and outlets on WIFi.

Edited by dgage, 09 January 2019 - 02:47 PM.


#9 ano

ano

    Cocoonut

  • Registered
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3428 posts
  • Location:AZ
  • Experience:guru
  • Hardware:HAI OmniPro II
  • Tech:UPB, ZigBee
  • Audio:HAI
  • Phone:Ooma

Posted 09 January 2019 - 04:12 PM

Now setup a scene called Kitchen Lights or a phantom switch and include all of the kitchen lights on that. Then it will work as described.

Yes I have done that, but what to call it is the question?  I have those automatically created for me anyway because I use HLC which creates virtual devices like "All Kitchen Lights"  But the problem is its just more devices to remember, so I haven't enabled these devices in Alexa.  You can also create groups in Alexa. That has some of the same pros and cons. 

You could create hundreds of devices, all with a different combination of devices, but that creates a mess, and will you ever use them? No. I liked JonW's idea that it just worked automatically, but I haven't found that to be true, at least on my Alexa.

Edited by ano, 09 January 2019 - 04:17 PM.


#10 vc1234

vc1234

    Dedicated Cocooner

  • Registered
  • PipPipPip
  • 271 posts

Posted 09 January 2019 - 08:37 PM

Regarding WiFi switches, I dont like this at all due to the number of devices already on a home network and the density of WiFi in condosor densely populated houses. I was thinking maybe you could run a separate complete network but density of other WiFi could interfere with that. I guess an alternative is to give 2.4 GHz over to Alexa and these sorts of things and keep primary human usage (laptops, tablets, phones) on the 5 GHz network.

I think Ill stick to RadioRa2 where I have rock solid stability. A little more expensive but I just cant see putting light switches and outlets on WIFi.

I used to be sceptical about wifi based switches. Still, probably is, but I cannot come up with  a real reason why they should be inferior to a zigbee network any more.  Since wifi equipment is so ubiquitous and proven, a wifi based network should be superior to any 2.4GHz based alternative especially if one takes into account the fact that a typical wifi router emits much more powerful signal than a zigbeee gateway.  One can use a separate network with its own address domain to avoid polluting the existing setup if needed. Perhaps, they can be separated by running the main network at 5GHz and the HA network at 2.4GHz to decrease interference.

 

RadioRA2 is a different matter altogether.

 

 

Battery based devices is another matter of course.



#11 Work2Play

Work2Play

    Cocoonut

  • -=Gold Supporter=-
  • 4927 posts
  • Location:Colorado
  • Experience:guru
  • Software:Elve
  • Hardware:Elk M1, RUC-01
  • Tech:X10-RF, UPB, RadioRA2
  • Audio:AirPlay
  • Video:XBMC
  • CCTV:ip, dvr
  • Phone:3CX, Asterisk, FreePBX, Grandstream, Ooma

Posted 09 January 2019 - 08:45 PM

Regarding WiFi switches, I dont like this at all due to the number of devices already on a home network and the density of WiFi in condosor densely populated houses. I was thinking maybe you could run a separate complete network but density of other WiFi could interfere with that. I guess an alternative is to give 2.4 GHz over to Alexa and these sorts of things and keep primary human usage (laptops, tablets, phones) on the 5 GHz network.

I think Ill stick to RadioRa2 where I have rock solid stability. A little more expensive but I just cant see putting light switches and outlets on WIFi.

Can you imagine having to change your Wifi password, and having to reconfigure 75 light switches?  Eeek.



#12 vc1234

vc1234

    Dedicated Cocooner

  • Registered
  • PipPipPip
  • 271 posts

Posted 09 January 2019 - 10:43 PM

Can you imagine having to change your Wifi password, and having to reconfigure 75 light switches?  Eeek.

At least there is pretty reliable and proven security framework with wifi. RadioRa2  has none  and unlikely to have ever in future..

 

Besides, there are working approaches although imperfect for wifi IoT devices automatic provisioning: http://www.ti.com/li...011/swry011.pdf



#13 dgage

dgage

    Dedicated Cocooner

  • Registered
  • PipPipPip
  • 572 posts
  • Location:TN
  • Experience:average
  • Software:CQC
  • Tech:RadioRA2
  • Audio:Sonos
  • Video:Windows Media Center
  • Phone:Linksys PAP2

Posted 10 January 2019 - 09:10 AM

RadioRA2 is a different matter altogether.
 


I definitely wouldn’t use Zigbee or Zwave as the gold standard for reliability but you’re probably right that was their baseline.

Like you say, RadioRa2 is at another level of reliability.

#14 JonW

JonW

    Cocoonut

  • Registered
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1021 posts
  • Location:Huntington Beach, CA
  • Hardware:HAI OmniPro II
  • Tech:UPB

Posted 10 January 2019 - 12:51 PM

 I liked JonW's idea that it just worked automatically, but I haven't found that to be true, at least on my Alexa.

I'm finding something has changed with Alexa's processing since the time I implemented mine.  I don't really use her much now except for complete room control, so I started re-testing some commands for the individual lights and now I'm getting mixed results.  My wife commented that she noticed it's been happening this way for a while now which was news to me. Some are working with the room name in the command and some are not.  I'm now using OpenHAB as my OmniPro bridge to Alexa and I'm now going back through and removing the room names from my individual lights as it IS causing confusion.  Prior to OpenHAB, I had written and used my own Alexa gateway for quite a while and back then it was working as previously described.  My best guess is things changed between V1 and V2 of their Smart Home skill protocol.



#15 ano

ano

    Cocoonut

  • Registered
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3428 posts
  • Location:AZ
  • Experience:guru
  • Hardware:HAI OmniPro II
  • Tech:UPB, ZigBee
  • Audio:HAI
  • Phone:Ooma

Posted 10 January 2019 - 12:53 PM

I used to be sceptical about wifi based switches. Still, probably is, but I cannot come up with  a real reason why they should be inferior to a zigbee network any more. 

We'll, lets see.  Can Wi-Fi switches automatically update their firmware over-the-air, while you sleep?  If you could even update firmware of Wi-Fi switches, I'm sure it would be a nightmare for 50 to 100 switches.

 

Then as Work2Play says, passwords. Remember, these are the things you should change ever 6 months or less, right.  :wacko:

 

Then you probably want fixed IP addresses for your switches so you can keep track of them, but lots of home-grade Wi-Fi routers are not great at handling many IP addresses.

 

Many Las Vegas hotels use Zigbee to handle their lights and thermostats.

 

If you just have a handful of Wi-Fi light switches, its not a big deal, but if you have many, its not a great solution.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users