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Network speed needed for a couple security cams?


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#1 JimS

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 12:05 PM

Building a detached garage and plan to run a conduit for network to it.  Will have some light internet use and also plan to put up a couple POE network cameras for security.  The run is about 75' and I have some extra phone cable that is direct burial left over from relocating the line to the house some years ago.  The phone tech just left the spool for me to bury and came back to make the joints waterproof and never picked up the remaining cable.  But it is only 3 twisted pairs so only good for 100M speed AFAICT. 

 

Is this enough for a couple cameras or should I get better cable?  1080P would be nice but I don't need 30 FPS.  Recorder will likely be in the house.



#2 lanbrown

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 12:32 PM

I would go with better cable.

 

You have a couple of options.

 

1) Run enough cables for every device

 

2) Put a cheap PoE switch in the garage and run a single cable to it.

 

If you put a switch that at least had a gigabit uplink port on it, that would be more than enough to feed the cameras and Internet usage.

 

I'd look for Cat6 preferably Cat6a.  They do sell direct burial cable of this.  Depending on the brand not too expensive.  Even if you only need one cable, I'd run two and make sure to also run a pull string when you run the initial cabling.



#3 JimS

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 12:52 PM

I haven't thought much about it and haven't done any PoE stuff yet but thinking a PoE switch in the garage would be the way to go.  (but open to being schooled on other options).

 

Would be nice to have wireless - Any decent, low cost (realize that's a relative term...)  PoE switches that include a wireless access point?  Or am I looking at two different boxes?  Any specific units recommended?

 

I looked on monoprice and only saw direct burial CAT5e.  And was 1000ft spool which is way more than I need.  I see amazon has it in various lengths with terminations so that looks attractive.  Terminating the shield would take special connectors and extra effort.  Any suggestions on where to buy?



#4 RAL

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 01:16 PM

1080p at 30fps requires about 5 to 10 mbps.  You should have no trouble running several cameras over the cable you've got.

 

On the other hand, if the trench is open, now's the time to run a better cable if you think you'll ever need it.



#5 lanbrown

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 01:43 PM

Cat6 and Cat6a comes in UTP.  You do not want to get into STP.  Forget about the terminating it, you need to have it properly grounded as well.  So the termination aspect is not horrible, but now you have that extra step to ground it.  If there was a lot of interference, then you need to start looking at STP.

 

If it is a sealed conduit, direct burial may not be necessary.  I have non-direct burial in a sealed conduit.  One end of the conduit goes into a utility box on the side of the house, goes underground and comes up in a box that is about 18 inches off the ground.  The schedule 40 box has a faceplate that has a seal on it.

 

This is what I would do.  Get Cat6a cable.  If you want burial cable, then go for it.  Terminate the cables on each end with either Mini-Com or Net-Key jacks and use faceplates.  Then you just run patch cords from there.

 

Switch wise, if Fast Ethernet is acceptable, you can find some pretty cheap used switches.  You can find an 8-port Fast Ethernet switch on eBay that is manufactured by Cisco and it has one Gigabit Ethernet link on it.  So you can feed the switch via Gigabit and then have 8 Fast Ethernet PoE ports.  The ports are only PoE (not PoE+ or PoE++) but 15.4 watts per port should be plenty.  The switch can provide 15.4 watts on all 8 ports.  You also now have non-blocking capability since all 8 ports combined will be only 800Mbps and you have a 1000Mpbs uplink.  You can find this switch on eBay for around $40.  I can assist if you need assistance in configuring it.

 

Environmental specs:

● Operating temperature: 32 to 113ºF (0 to 45ºC)

● Storage temperature: -13 to 158ºF (-25 to 70ºC)

● Operating relative humidity: 10 to 85% (noncondensing)

● Operating altitude: Up to 10,000 ft (3049m)

● Storage altitude: Up to 15,000 ft (4573m) 

 

For wireless, just use a separate box.  You can find some pretty cheap AP's that are PoE powered as well.  You would be limited to 802.11n speeds with 100Mbps though.  If you want faster, then just run a second Cat6a cable in the conduit.

 

If you're buying a spool of cable though, if the distance it 70 feet, then you could just run 4 or 6 (6 is the limit to a single gang faceplate) and then you never need to worry about future growth or trying to get another cable through the conduit.  Cat6a is also good for 10Gbps at 100 meters.  So it kinda future proofs your setup.



#6 JimS

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 01:43 PM

It will be in a conduit so I can always pull in a better cable if needed. The phone cable I have has a shield but they didn't bother to connect the shields at the splices

Edited by JimS, 26 October 2019 - 01:48 PM.


#7 JimS

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 02:55 PM

Switch wise, if Fast Ethernet is acceptable, you can find some pretty cheap used switches.  You can find an 8-port Fast Ethernet switch on eBay that is manufactured by Cisco and it has one Gigabit Ethernet link on it.  So you can feed the switch via Gigabit and then have 8 Fast Ethernet PoE ports.  The ports are only PoE (not PoE+ or PoE++) but 15.4 watts per port should be plenty.  The switch can provide 15.4 watts on all 8 ports.  You also now have non-blocking capability since all 8 ports combined will be only 800Mbps and you have a 1000Mpbs uplink.  You can find this switch on eBay for around $40.  I can assist if you need assistance in configuring it.
 

I am guessing you are referring to WS-C3560-8PC-S?

 

Or I see WS-C2940-8TF-S for even less.  Not sure what the difference is but looks like both have the same basic features of PoE and Gigabit uplink.


Edited by JimS, 26 October 2019 - 03:03 PM.


#8 pete_c

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 03:12 PM

Just recently purchased a couple of new Smartcam camera boards one is 5 MP and the other is 4 MP.  These are HikVision boards.

 

Interesting that they both have Gb interfaces.  I have never seen this before on any of my IP HD cameras.

 

The firmware shows that these can talk locally to a NAS, SD card and cloud connection plus have RTSP dual streams, ONVIF streams and JPG captures.



#9 lanbrown

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 03:32 PM

Chances are they use a SoC or some chip package that comes preassembled.  Getting SoC's or other chips with 100Mb PHY's is getting harder and harder.  So not surprised that things start to have Gigabit PHY's on them.  Look at almost any switch for home use sold these days...gigabit.  There are still some 100Mb switches sold, but the majority of what is available are gigabit models.



#10 JimS

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Posted 26 October 2019 - 07:31 PM

100M seems like plenty for the cameras and such in the shop, especially if they combine to 1000M (or close to that).  I have a few wireless routers I could use for wireless and the slower speed is fine.  For the house I am guessing my ethernet "pipe" is going to be 100M or less so that's probably fine for the house network too.  I suppose I might want 1000M for internal network speed but even that is probably more than needed.  I do have a DVR (Mythtv) and want to set up at least one additional front end.  I suppose I could put the security on it's own subnet with its own dvr.  I have limited network experience so need to learn about more complex arrangements.  My current home network doesn't try to separate traffic and just puts everything together behind a router that is 100M.  Any suggestions would be welcome and appreciated.

 

So what do I plug the other end of the 1000M uplink in to so I get the benefit of the speed.  Obviously something with a 1000M port but beyond that is were I am a bit lost.  No doubt that depends on the use of the network so I have given a little detail on that.



#11 mikefamig

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 09:16 AM

It will be in a conduit so I can always pull in a better cable if needed. The phone cable I have has a shield but they didn't bother to connect the shields at the splices

 

A buried conduit is not a dry space and I would use direct bury cable in it. A buried conduit fills with water from condensation. I have also found it impossible to add a wire or cable to a conduit by pulling it alonside existing wires and cables. I left a pull cord in my 2" conduit and it was useless when the time came to add a wire. In my experience I've had to pull all cable from the conduit and then pull them all through again with the additional new cable.

 

Mike.


Edited by mikefamig, 27 October 2019 - 09:25 AM.


#12 mikefamig

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 09:38 AM

I also found it necessary to install surge protectors at each end of the buried cable at the entry point of each building after suffering a lightning strike that killed one switch and one cable set top box.
 
I used primus gel filled cable
https://www.primusca...rial-Cable.aspx
 
and Ditek surge devices
https://www.diteksur...AiAAEgKGOPD_BwE
 
I didn't have a lot of confidence in the surge protectors but it's been a few years and so far so good.
 
 Mike.

Edited by mikefamig, 27 October 2019 - 09:38 AM.


#13 JimS

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 10:45 AM

Yes, I understand that buried conduit is considered a wet space and needs appropriate cable.  The cable I have is direct burial.

 

Thanks for the links.

 

I have had some success pulling in additional runs in conduit if they have very limited curves or are lightly filled.  Otherwise I agree that it may not be possible.



#14 batwater

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 05:25 PM

I also found it necessary to install surge protectors at each end of the buried cable at the entry point of each building after suffering a lightning strike that killed one switch and one cable set top box.
 
I used primus gel filled cable
https://www.primusca...rial-Cable.aspx
 
and Ditek surge devices
https://www.diteksur...AiAAEgKGOPD_BwE
 
I didn't have a lot of confidence in the surge protectors but it's been a few years and so far so good.
 
 Mike.

 

Instead of copper between buildings consider running Fiber. FiberStore fs.com has outstanding prices for pre-terminated cable of all sorts. Media converters are inexpensive or if you run with 2 Ubiquiti switches, they offer an 8 port POE that is under $200 on amazon. Fiber transceivers required for each end are only $6. The added benefit is that you will not have to worry about ground differentials between the buildings potentially (no pun intended) causing issues.



#15 JimS

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Posted 27 October 2019 - 08:05 PM

Instead of copper between buildings consider running Fiber. FiberStore fs.com has outstanding prices for pre-terminated cable of all sorts. Media converters are inexpensive or if you run with 2 Ubiquiti switches, they offer an 8 port POE that is under $200 on amazon. Fiber transceivers required for each end are only $6. The added benefit is that you will not have to worry about ground differentials between the buildings potentially (no pun intended) causing issues.

Interesting.  Can you provide specific details on the various parts?






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