wifi mesh network

Looking at upgrading my network equipment.  Most of it is now old G equipment.  It works and my incoming pipe is 6 Mbps so not really a bottleneck with the local network equipment but would like to get better coverage.  Was looking at TP-Link AC1750 that supports mesh and thinking I would put one at each end of the house - have a big yard and wanted to cover as much as practical.  But I just read that two routers aren't able to be used for a mesh.
 
https://community.tp-link.com/en/home/forum/topic/212264
 
Seems really strange that their equipment can't interoperate.  I could set up both with the same ssid but I think there may be issues with going from one zone to the other. 
I could spend more for equipment but with my limited speed and usage I would like to keep the cost down.

Typically that is true.
 
However, ASUS and I heard of another brand now, have updates for their newer routers that make them mesh compatible.  I have two ASUS RT-AX92 routers that mesh with each other, and offer WiFi 6, just coming onto the scene. They also connect to my older ASUS RT-AC68u router.
 
The two newer routers are connected @ wired GigaBit Ethernet. The older router connects on the third 5GHz band and may possible slow it down from it's 5,000 Mbps WiFi 6 channel???
 
My VR headsets support WiFi 6 and connect at 1200 Mbps via WiFi 6. The 2.4GHz band and the regular/old 5GHz band are both capable of at least 866 Mbps.
 
I am not sure what the router capability is on the 2.4 & 5.0 GHz channels but there is now no difference in sped between those frequencies.
 
ASUS also has a newer router model that goes to 11,000 Mbps on WiFi 6. That's right!...11 x the speed of Gigabit Ethernet.
 
You may want to consider the future of your WiFi LAN and they have made it expandable a piece at a time without making a Mesh jump. I have heard problems with every system I have heard about so far. Some of my devices will NOT switch frequencies and don't appreciate the router attempting to switch their bands (dropouts that may not heal) . Most devices do it by themselves already anyway, when they have to. I have that feature, with the load balancing feature, turned off for now.
 
BTW: A WiFi extender is not a mesh network. Usually they just repeat the same signal and slows your WiFi down with extra chatter and collisions.

LarrylLix said:

You may want to consider the future of your WiFi LAN and they have made it expandable a piece at a time without making a Mesh jump. I have heard problems with every system I have heard about so far. Some of my devices will NOT switch frequencies and don't appreciate the router attempting to switch their bands (dropouts that may not heal) . Most devices do it by themselves already anyway, when they have to. I have that feature, with the load balancing feature, turned off for now.
 
BTW: A WiFi extender is not a mesh network. Usually they just repeat the same signal and slows your WiFi down with extra chatter and collisions.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the comments.  Care to explain more on the part about expandability?  I don't need faster speed and certainly not Wifi6.  I need to expand my system to a detached building and so will be adding some additional nodes.  Just trying to figure out what's best for those nodes.  By the time I need wifi6 speed something else will be out and it will be a lot cheaper.  I guess you could call me a late adopter.   

I would separate the marketing hype from the reality.  I have a Fortinet business router and two Fortinet access points. I don't have it for speed, I have it because it offers virus and intrusion protection, which is needed for the home business, nowadays.  Anyway my home has about 50 WiFi devices, Ring cameras, phones, iPads computers, Echos, you name it.  I only bring this up because my router lets me see a graph of bandwidth down to the device level if I want.  Long story short, even with multiple 4K TVs, I rarely ever see total bandwith for the home exceed 25mbps.  If it does, its very short bursts.  802.11n or even g should provide all the bandwidth you will need.  There are exceptions, of course, with PCs actually downloading files, but that occurs so little, its not worth mentioning.  
 
In addition, these new WiFi standards have MANY MANY caveats. To get "full speed" you need multiple antenna support, not only on the router, but also the device.  VERY FEW devices have more than two antennas. Oh, and that's not all.  These WiFi standards need lots of bandwidth that you are sharing with your neighbors.  There really are only 2.4Ghz channels (1, 6, 11)  and only 12 in the 5Ghz band.  Oh, by the way, if use many devices, they only support channels 36, 44, 149, and 157.  Amazon Echos are one of these devices.  (It has to do with radar interference migration, but that is another story.) 
 
At this moment, my Fortigate can "see" a  total of 149 other WiFi access points, many in cars. Only a few though are interfering with mine. Wi-Fi can travel much further than you think. I can "see" some access points over 1 mile away.  (I live in the suburbs, not a dense city.)  Also, do keep in mind that every "mesh" access point needs wireless backhaul that also consumes wireless bandwidth, so MANY times these mesh access points are actually slowing your speed. 
 
The people that sell Wi-Fi equipment realize all these things, but they want you to keep buying and keep buying equipment.  Making the latest Wi-Fi chips is cheap (I use to be in that business) so they churn them out hoping you will buy them.  When you pay hundreds of $$ for all this stuff, you will learn that the new stuff is not going to make any noticeable difference. 
 
To get the best speed and coverage, monitor your neighbor's networks, stay on different channels, and add a bigger, higher antenna if you need it.
 
 Here is another "secret."  Your phone has the worst signal of any device in your house, and iPhones are the worst.  The phone's signal is ALWAYS a limiting factor on range and speed.  Wi-Fi is two-way, and its the weakest direction that is the limiting factor. 
 
When you get down to the realities of Wi-Fi, its not as pretty as the brochures for those "mesh" router networks.  

JimS said:

Thanks for the comments.  Care to explain more on the part about expandability?  I don't need faster speed and certainly not Wifi6.  I need to expand my system to a detached building and so will be adding some additional nodes.  Just trying to figure out what's best for those nodes.  By the time I need wifi6 speed something else will be out and it will be a lot cheaper.  I guess you could call me a late adopter. 

Click to expand...

If you have multiple areas to cover, the best system you can get is to use a router that allows you to connect and manage multiple Wi-Fi access points. Do some channel planning, and turn DOWN the power level of each so they don't interfere with each other.  Again, there are really only 3 2.4Ghz channels and 4 5Ghz channels which you share with your neighbors.  Managing that resource is the most import thing, NOT the latest greatest Wi-Fi standard.

Don't have to worry about neighbors signals much.  I have one house about 600 feet away.  Others are much farther.  I would like to get better coverage outside.  My original thought was to put a router with wifi at one end of the house and another with the same ssid and wired via a LAN port to the other router.  I have read this can cause issues when moving from one units signal to the other - i.e. the receiving unit must completely loose signal before it switches. 

JimS said:

Thanks for the comments.  Care to explain more on the part about expandability?  I don't need faster speed and certainly not Wifi6.  I need to expand my system to a detached building and so will be adding some additional nodes.  Just trying to figure out what's best for those nodes.  By the time I need wifi6 speed something else will be out and it will be a lot cheaper.  I guess you could call me a late adopter. 

Click to expand...

Expandability. You could buy one ASUS router and use it alone. Later you could add two, three or four more routers (and different models) and they can automatically mesh with your original router.
 
On a mesh system, your router will automatically switch devices between routers. Think about it. Each router can receive the device's signal and the one with the stronger signal only needs to answer. The devices do not realise they have switched routers as it is seamless and works exactly like your cell phone witches towers.
 
The WiFi 6 adds many more 5GHz channels and frequencies. With my newer router,s my 2.4GHz and two 5.0GHz bands can use 8 channels to get the speed up. This is automatic and can switch down to narrower channel usage depending on the device that answers also.
 
Multiple antennae routers (ASUS anyway and a few other brands I have owned) detect the best antennae configuration to effect a "beaming signal" like a parabolic dish would do. They can phase shift the signals from each antennae to cause a focusing effect in one direction or another. WiFi devices do not require multiple antennae. They can use the same antenna due to the 5Ghz and 2.4Ghz being almost exact duplicate frequencies and that makes a tuned antenna efficient to hand both frequencies. Devices only use one frequency band at any time and do not mix them. Routers can and do.
 
With a mesh router system and multiple access points (antennae) the power can be turned down. This results in receivers not hearing all the neighbour's WiFi, and other noise. I have a similar environment as you being in a semi rural setting. As the background noise gets turned down, your devices can increase the sensitivity and hear other SSIDs for miles at times. The master router turns powers up and down to each router as needed. As I mentioned before, the master router can also switch devices between routers seamlessly as well as balance device load/bandwidth between 2.4 and 5GHz bands. I found this didn't work well, yet,  with some devices and disabled it.

Here are some screens shots.
 
<forum won't take the two screenshots in one post>
 
 
 
 
Here is a screen shot of how my 5GHz channel usage is staggered for the WiFi6 channel. Note there are only a few 5GHz routers seen from my laptop WiFi card. Some overlap my router's selection of channels at the lower end (WiFi 5), but none conflict with the upper channels on WiFi 6.
 
Also not that my two routers produce two SSIDs with exactly the same frequency so that devices can switch back and forth between routers seamlessly. Note the lower amplitude of each pair is the router AP farther away from my current location in my home.
 

This one is from my ASUS router showing the additional 5GHz channels the new WiFi 6 band adds, in addition to faster speeds. I have over 75 WiFi devices, including about 35 RGBW WiFi lighting devices, so speed can get important. If you are using streaming devices, sharing the bandwidth on a WiFi channel they will likely give you lower resolution to accommodate the time slicing that goes on on Ethernet WiFi comm channels.

I was planning to move the old router to the detached garage and want to put up two in the house (each end) for good coverage so that's my upgrade plan - get two new for the house.  The Asus RT-AC68U AC1900 looks to be the cheapest Asus with mesh for about $120 each.  More than I had planned but not terrible.  I found a 2 pack but it looks to be more than just buying two which is really strange... Any thoughts on that selection?

The biggest feature I use in a router, and the one I have never seen offered in a mesh system, is the ability to fail over to a backup WAN link. My backup is only a dual DSL link but it has saved me many a time when I had cable issues during a critical teleconference for work or a house full of guests looking to use their phones and tablets on my Wi-Fi. I don't know why this feature is not more commonly available without resorting to something excessively complex like Ubiquity. Fortunately I found that a Peplink router and half a dozen Pepwave access points work well providing simple control of everything from the router admin page without needing any cloud key or other extra hardware to link it all together.
 
The other problem with mesh systems is most rely on wall warts for the remote radios. Even the ones that offer the option for wired backhaul rarely support POE so if you want resilience during power glitches you have to put a small UPS wherever you place a mesh extender. (Not compatible with most decor) 
 
If anybody knows of a model of Eero, or Orbi, or TP-Link, or Netgear that has dual WAN and some sort of battery backup in each unit I would be interested to hear about it. Folks ask me all the time to reccommend a mesh network but I don't feel right about steering them toward anything that does not offer these two features or at least an upgrade option to add these features.

upstatemike said:

The biggest feature I use in a router, and the one I have never seen offered in a mesh system, is the ability to fail over to a backup WAN link. My backup is only a dual DSL link but it has saved me many a time when I had cable issues during a critical teleconference for work or a house full of guests looking to use their phones and tablets on my Wi-Fi. I don't know why this feature is not more commonly available without resorting to something excessively complex like Ubiquity. Fortunately I found that a Peplink router and half a dozen Pepwave access points work well providing simple control of everything from the router admin page without needing any cloud key or other extra hardware to link it all together.
 
The other problem with mesh systems is most rely on wall warts for the remote radios. Even the ones that offer the option for wired backhaul rarely support POE so if you want resilience during power glitches you have to put a small UPS wherever you place a mesh extender. (Not compatible with most decor) 
 
If anybody knows of a model of Eero, or Orbi, or TP-Link, or Netgear that has dual WAN and some sort of battery backup in each unit I would be interested to hear about it. Folks ask me all the time to reccommend a mesh network but I don't feel right about steering them toward anything that does not offer these two features or at least an upgrade option to add these features.

Click to expand...

ASUS routers offer dual WAN access on newer units that offer meshing capabilities.

upstatemike said:

The biggest feature I use in a router, and the one I have never seen offered in a mesh system, is the ability to fail over to a backup WAN link. My backup is only a dual DSL link but it has saved me many a time when I had cable issues during a critical teleconference for work or a house full of guests looking to use their phones and tablets on my Wi-Fi. I don't know why this feature is not more commonly available without resorting to something excessively complex like Ubiquity. Fortunately I found that a Peplink router and half a dozen Pepwave access points work well providing simple control of everything from the router admin page without needing any cloud key or other extra hardware to link it all together.
 
The other problem with mesh systems is most rely on wall warts for the remote radios. Even the ones that offer the option for wired backhaul rarely support POE so if you want resilience during power glitches you have to put a small UPS wherever you place a mesh extender. (Not compatible with most decor) 
 
If anybody knows of a model of Eero, or Orbi, or TP-Link, or Netgear that has dual WAN and some sort of battery backup in each unit I would be interested to hear about it. Folks ask me all the time to reccommend a mesh network but I don't feel right about steering them toward anything that does not offer these two features or at least an upgrade option to add these features.

Click to expand...

If you really need fallover to a second ISP then you could just put a router that can handle 2 WAN upstream of the mesh routers.  Personally, that seems a bit over the top for a home setup given that phones would revert to the cell network.  Maybe others have more trouble with their ISP.  Mine has only been down once for a short time that I can remember in about 15 years. 
 
As far as the remote node not having backup power that's a valid point but for me is not an issue.  Most of the house is covered by the main unit.  POE would be nice to have and I would think someone would do that.  You could always put a small UPS at the remote node. 

JimS said:

I was planning to move the old router to the detached garage and want to put up two in the house (each end) for good coverage so that's my upgrade plan - get two new for the house.  The Asus RT-AC68U AC1900 looks to be the cheapest Asus with mesh for about $120 each.  More than I had planned but not terrible.  I found a 2 pack but it looks to be more than just buying two which is really strange... Any thoughts on that selection?

Click to expand...

I use the ASUS RT-AC68U router with my mesh.
 
The only thing is I have an older unit that was short of NVRAM memory, and my device list causes it problems at about 51 connected devices. The DHCP IP address list tops out about 51connected devices and makes bad things happen. Right after I bought it on sale, ASUS increased the NVRAM from 64KB to 128KB and changed the version from 1 to 2. **Poor me**
 
Other than that, the RT-AC68u meshes just fine with my RT-AX92u router(s). I bought one at a time due to some modem problem that I thought were router problems. It will sacrifice the 5GHz band to make a backhaul connection for the mesh to more routers if a wired Ethernet cannot be installed. The 5GHz band will still work, but it will be shared and share speed also.
 
The ASUS routers will automatically find the best way to connect to each other with wired Ethernet an optional preference. You can see where every device connects on the newer firmware now and see signal levels.
 
I don't believe the RT-AC68u will do dual WAN, but the RT-AX92u routers definitely will and fail-over automatically.
 
With more than one mesh router any router can be rebooted at a time and your system will just turn up the gain to keep everything connected. Once the router returns to service things will just reconfigure to the best router and the signal level will resume lower levels to the best connection site.

For POE to non-POE devices you could use something like this:
 
https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-Gigabit-Ethernet-Splitter-TL-PoE10R/dp/B003CFATQK
 
It's just the first one I ran across.  There are likely other similar things.