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Leviton upb repeater placement and wiring


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#1 paullyboy83

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Posted 12 January 2021 - 01:29 AM

My parents just closed on a house and Ive had a fun crash course in trying to get their lights to work and never worked with UPB before. On each 200amp main and sub panel they have a Leviton phase coupler 39a001wired in. Ive flipped off each 240v breaker independently they are wired to to see if it improved or made the issue better but never flipped both at the same time. Anyway the issue is many of their 6 button scene dimmers do not work well. Many are just non responsive or turn off half the load that is called when buttons are pressed. Mostly all occur just when trying to turn off, not on. They allmost all work for turning circuits on just not off.

Ive walked around with upstart and a pim trying to find out what is going on and it makes little sense other than I believe some signals just dont reach as far as they need to in this 7000sqft home. Some outlets (for example In the home office) will not readily read a single Leviton scene or dimmer switch. No connection.
Ive acquired and plan to install a 39a00-2 Leviton split phase repeater that just arrived today. Not sure if that will help or not. Anyone want to recommend which panel (main or 200amp sub panel I should put this in?) Im no electrical genius but Id imagine If I wire it to l1 and l2 just like the phase coupler it should work? Do I need to set this up in UPB or is it automatically working when I wire it in?

#2 mikefamig

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Posted 12 January 2021 - 09:32 AM

Two common causes of trouble with UPB systems is weak signal and noisy appliances that interfere with that signal. I had a problem with inconsistent switching and it turned out to be a coffee pot causing interference on the wires. Think about what is in the house that runs on and off throughout the day like water heater, refrigerator, coffee pot etc that may be causing a problem.
 
Have you done any testing with the Upstart software for signal strength and noise at different places around the house?
 
Mike.

Edited by mikefamig, 12 January 2021 - 09:57 AM.


#3 rockinarmadillo

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Posted 12 January 2021 - 09:41 AM

Something to consider.   If it turns on, but not off it probably is getting noise from the circuit that you are turning on/off.   Some LED lighting can cause noise. 

 

I had a circuit that was behaving like this.   I found it was a noisy undercabinet LED strip light.   I experimented with different lighting levels and found that it the circuit would work if I set the lighting level at 70%.   It was a bright light, so this worked for me.   



#4 mikefamig

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Posted 12 January 2021 - 10:00 AM

An amplified repeater may help

 

https://www.homecont...-Wire-In-PCSPR1



#5 paullyboy83

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 04:34 AM

Im not really sure the best screen in upstart to test the noise levels. I will poke around, but if you can recommend which screen?
I will also try and just go breaker by breaker and see if the lights work better with one of them off.

Next I bought a Leviton repeater as recommended and plan on introducing that. Do you know which of the two panels I should install that on? Should I wire in tandem over the phase coupler or on a different breaker?

Thanks!!

#6 rockinarmadillo

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 08:55 AM

In the "tools" menu, you will see a "device to device test" and "signal-noise" meter.   Using these you will be able to see both the signal and the noise.   The SN meter will give you the specs at your computer interface.   You can use device to device to look at the signal all around the house.    

 

There is also a "communications test" tab on each device screen where you can measure the signal and noise between the computer and each device.

 

There are a lot of tools in upstart.   If you find that you have good communication with a device when it is off, but bad or no communication when it is off, then that device is messing with your signal.

 

I put the phase coupler on my sub panel and the repeater on the main panel.   It seems to work for me.   You can experiment by turning the breakers for the coupler and repeater on and off, then looking at the signal and noise on the network.   Note that on the ID tab of the device screen on upstart lists the phase as O-other, or S-same.     The phase coupler and repeater both take the signal on one phase and put it on the other.

 

Hope this helps.



#7 paullyboy83

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Posted 14 January 2021 - 10:41 AM

Hey Cocooners! Thanks so much for all your help. Really appreciate this community. After finding one of the highest noise signals I went to work and it actually came down to a 12v transformer to run some accent cabinet lights in conjunction with introducing a repeater on a sub panel and setting It on high. So I suppose it was a 2 part attack. I couldnt find it after flipping every single breaker as it was half of a circuit so in testing was poor noise or no communication. So it was just random on offs of everything in the house (and actually having to turn off this particular load twice) to silence the noise then popping the air switches on the HAI dimmer paddles. Strange but total victory.

I just purchased a Simply automated noise filter ZNF10A I will wire in when it arrives and he can get back the circuit. Please correct me if Im wrong but this has to go in between the transformer and the switch right? So it would be Line > switch > filter > transformer > lights.

All that said I did lots of research on filters (thanks again cocoon posters) into the night to see if I had other options as it looked like there were a lot of $10 options on Amazon. Would something like the e-outstanding noise filter from Amazon work? (Sorry Im too née to post links)

Next up. Buying a raspi 4b and installing Hass w omnilinkbridge (had an Omni pro2) and HomeKitbridge so he can start telling his watch/iPhone to arm/disarm and turn on/off lights. A big want for him is to get rid of the land line system that controls his gate (its a local network not subscribed). It is a telephone control gate opener that rings a land line system. I believe the linear RE-1 system is what he has for control (again sorry I cant post links yet).

I know him and I think a single tap button press near his front door that I label gate for a single open. Double click for hold open and close within one of his 6 button screen controllers AS WELL AS a call that comes in on his and the Wives mobile phones that he can use as a button press from within the phone call on their iPhone dial pads after speaking with their visitor is the ideal solution, but also kinda two implementations with a voip or dialing system of some sort. I do think he would be open to reactivating the landline if it meant it would also ring his phone to control the gate.

So consider that Im going to install HomeKitbridge and omnilinkbridge can you cocooners suggest something for the following
Option 1. Can anyone recommend a upb device for just controlling the gate for now (ie open and close via upb scene control button press). Im thinking something like a low voltage relay (I think the telephone sends 12vdc currents for button presses right?)
Option 2. Can anyone recommend a setup that would maybe marry in tandem the LAN telephone control with a multi ring that will also call his phone. Keep in mind he has an internet line but doesnt pay for phone service).
Option 3. Keep the linear gate access module but vacate the landline and go pure mobile/internet control that rings just his and the wives cell phones, but also the upb overlay to control opens and closes via a scene control switch. (Id imagine this involves an internet dialing service or something).

Thanks so much yall!!

#8 ano

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Posted 15 January 2021 - 12:28 AM

What kind of switches do you have?  If it's Simply Automated, don't bother with a repeater, since they are version 1 and don't support it. All other kind should work fine.  I would only wire the coupler and repeater together with if you have both SA and non-SA switches. No SA switches, you don't need the coupler. 



#9 mikefamig

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Posted 15 January 2021 - 01:38 AM

I want to say that i've had a half dozen UPB switches in my house for about 8 years and once I got past some noise problems in the first few months the system has been solid. There is the very rare occasion when a programmed event doesn't execute but I'm talking once or twice a year? It was worth the effort.

 

Mike.



#10 paullyboy83

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Posted 15 January 2021 - 02:12 AM

Yes mikefamig. Totally worth chasing it down. Working really well now.

Ano,
I actually already solved that part of my issues. Leviton gen 2 dimmers and 6 button scene switches with a phase coupler at each panel when my dad bought the place. Added a Leviton repeater (set to high in upstart) and found a noisy 120>12v lighting transformer and killed it for now. Both things needed fixed and now system is working and working well.

Cocooners
Here are the new things I need help with if anybody can recommend or have time to suggest a solution.

1. Is this the correct order to wire in the SA noise filter I bought to cancel out transformer noise ?
Line > switch > filter > transformer > lights.

2. Would this work as a noise filter ? Much cheaper than the SA one and just curious. My noisy item looks to be a 120-12v ballast transformer thing about the size of 2 snickers.
https://www.amazon.c...3CZXYVM06&psc=1

3. I have a Viking c1000-b gate controller hooked up to landline. Anyone know what upb device I can wire into this controller to make it so I can button press a scene switch? I think it is 12v or so input signal to trigger the gate, so some sort of upb low voltage to low voltage relay!?
Link to controller manual

https://www.vikingel...ual/C-1000B.pdf

4. Any idea how to get this to ring his cell phone as well or in place of his landline?

#11 rockinarmadillo

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Posted 15 January 2021 - 02:38 PM

I am a little confused with what you are trying to do in question #3.   However, if you are trying to activate a scene with a LV trigger from the gate controller, then the PCS ICM will work.   If you are trying to activate the gate controller from UPB, the PCS OCM will do the trick.



#12 paullyboy83

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Posted 16 January 2021 - 06:14 PM

PCS OCM is on order. Thanks Rockinarmidillo. This was the info I was seeking for how to get UPB to low voltage to control the gate opener.
 

Edited by paullyboy83, 16 January 2021 - 06:43 PM.





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