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RelayTouch-UTMA Touch Screen Review


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#16 DavidL

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 11:42 AM

Justin, yes, I have one (12) in my home. Works well running MainLobby. Not recommended for full motion video due to bandwidth constraints, but this is not typically a problem when used as an automation controller interface.

#17 J_P

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 10:18 AM

Thanks David.

#18 Kris

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 09:11 AM

Justin, yes, I have one (12) in my home. Works well running MainLobby. Not recommended for full motion video due to bandwidth constraints, but this is not typically a problem when used as an automation controller interface.


David, could you please ellaborate on this 'bandwith constraint'? Is that because of constraints on your master-host? or constaints on the UTMA connection? I would think only the 'image' of the host comes over the connection, should be equal independant of what is displayed, no?

#19 DavidL

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 11:52 AM

Justin, yes, I have one (12) in my home. Works well running MainLobby. Not recommended for full motion video due to bandwidth constraints, but this is not typically a problem when used as an automation controller interface.


David, could you please ellaborate on this 'bandwith constraint'? Is that because of constraints on your master-host? or constaints on the UTMA connection? I would think only the 'image' of the host comes over the connection, should be equal independant of what is displayed, no?



You wouldn't watch a full screen DVD on a UTMA touchpanel. Both in optical clarity as well as bandwidth processing limitations where the movie would not be "smear proof". But, I would not concentrate on that limitation, because for most reasons why you would use a UTMA touchscreen, that is not what you would do with it. Streaming security cameras is not an issue and that IS what users would do with it and it requires much less bandwidth than a DVD quality video.

As with all products, there are feature / quality and cost balancing. The Touchtronix IMHO is weighted towards cost a bit, and that is very likely why people are interested in it. If you are not weighted by cost considerations, then buy a Nobu in wall PC that doesn't have those limitations, but costs a few times as much $'s. The Touchtronix UTMA has a very nice niche and does well.

#20 Rogier21

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Posted 22 September 2007 - 11:32 AM

Small kick, but the domain is for sale? I was interested in this screen, but I can't seem to find it anymore :(

#21 Steve

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Posted 22 September 2007 - 01:06 PM

I was interested in this screen, but I can't seem to find it anymore :(

http://www.touchtronix.com/

#22 Frunple

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Posted 22 September 2007 - 01:37 PM

Keep in mind, these are not true pc touchscreen. They are terminal services clients. They simply run a remote desktop session to a host pc. This is the real reason they wont run video mentioned earlier in this post. remote desktop doesnt have a true refresh rate, it simply repaints the screen when needed.

You can get a viewsonic airpanel v150 for around $300 on ebay with a 15" screen and its the same as these units.

#23 Rogier21

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Posted 22 September 2007 - 02:27 PM

Keep in mind, these are not true pc touchscreen. They are terminal services clients. They simply run a remote desktop session to a host pc. This is the real reason they wont run video mentioned earlier in this post. remote desktop doesnt have a true refresh rate, it simply repaints the screen when needed.

You can get a viewsonic airpanel v150 for around $300 on ebay with a 15" screen and its the same as these units.

I am just looking around for a simple solution for some basic commands from a central panel. I don't really want to use a power eating PC behind it, so terminal are pretty good solutions for that (if you have a server for it that is).

#24 BraveSirRobbin

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Posted 22 September 2007 - 04:00 PM

Keep in mind, these are not true pc touchscreen. They are terminal services clients. They simply run a remote desktop session to a host pc. This is the real reason they wont run video mentioned earlier in this post. remote desktop doesnt have a true refresh rate, it simply repaints the screen when needed.

You can get a viewsonic airpanel v150 for around $300 on ebay with a 15" screen and its the same as these units.


I'm not sure you are doing an apples to apples comparison. True the ViewSonic Airpanel can perform an RD connection to a PC, but I believe if using RD only one session can be active at a time. I think there may be a hack for this that I saw floating around.

You can have multiple sessions active using UTMA technology.

Also, the TouchTronix units are made to be enclosed inside a wall, with no maintenance and noise. Most "hacked" touchscreens are not meant to do this.

These units are also made so very little maintenance is required. You just click on an upgrade firmware button and that's it.

#25 Frunple

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Posted 22 September 2007 - 07:21 PM

You can have multiple sessions active using UTMA technology.


Yes and that clearly violates MS' EULA. Thats why they put a stop to the concurrent login ( the hack you mentioned) in the initial release of XP SP2.

#26 BraveSirRobbin

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Posted 22 September 2007 - 08:34 PM

You can have multiple sessions active using UTMA technology.


Yes and that clearly violates MS' EULA. Thats why they put a stop to the concurrent login ( the hack you mentioned) in the initial release of XP SP2.

This is correct. The point I was trying to make (albeit rather poorly) was that in terms of maintenance and concurrent connections, the nComputing device is different than the Viewsonic panel running native RD. :(

As far as licensing and EULA agreements, NComputing appears to be having discussions with Microsoft on this "concurrent" issue. This, as you pointed out, should be looked over by the end user.

FYI, you also should consider the type of device that is placed inside a wall, especially in terms of power/heat dissipation. This was the other point I wanted to make, that this device was made to be installed in such an environment.

#27 Frunple

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Posted 23 September 2007 - 10:18 AM

You can have multiple sessions active using UTMA technology.


Yes and that clearly violates MS' EULA. Thats why they put a stop to the concurrent login ( the hack you mentioned) in the initial release of XP SP2.

This is correct. The point I was trying to make (albeit rather poorly) was that in terms of maintenance and concurrent connections, the nComputing device is different than the Viewsonic panel running native RD. :)

As far as licensing and EULA agreements, NComputing appears to be having discussions with Microsoft on this "concurrent" issue. This, as you pointed out, should be looked over by the end user.

FYI, you also should consider the type of device that is placed inside a wall, especially in terms of power/heat dissipation. This was the other point I wanted to make, that this device was made to be installed in such an environment.


I dont remember ever mentioning mounting the airpanel IN a wall. I have mounted one ON a wall for a friend and it works, and looks, perfect. Its even better than mounting in a wall because it can be taken off the wall and used as a mobile touchpad around the house.
All I did was disassemble the desk mount and attached it to the wall so, if needed, the desk mount can be reassembled with no damages done.

My point is for $300 you can have the same functionality as the ~$1000 for the touchtronix screen. Way over priced for a terminal services client regardless of where or how it mounts. Its basically a dumb terminal any way you slice it.

Edited by Frunple, 23 September 2007 - 10:23 AM.


#28 DavidL

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Posted 23 September 2007 - 10:59 AM

Actually, I see the Touchtronix as VERY economical.
True you can eBay an out of date, out of warranty, relatively low perfomance tablet touchscreen and spend the effort to mount it on the wall, but you really can't compare that price to a custom made, in wall, certified, new, in warranty, touchscreen.

I have both and have done both (and many more alternatives) and quite frankly, the Tablets go unused on the shelf (after coming off the wall). I have many, many of them. Most all generations and technologies. The touchscreens that get used are the one's that are pro built and in the wall permanently that doesn't look like wall acne. UMPCs fit another void for handheld remote purposes. But, still get used less than the in wall equivelents.

#29 dwayne

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Posted 23 September 2007 - 12:53 PM

Keep in mind, these are not true pc touchscreen. They are terminal services clients. They simply run a remote desktop session to a host pc. This is the real reason they wont run video mentioned earlier in this post. remote desktop doesnt have a true refresh rate, it simply repaints the screen when needed.

You can get a viewsonic airpanel v150 for around $300 on ebay with a 15" screen and its the same as these units.


A few corrections:

They will indeed run video. The refresh rate of the video window itself is limited to about 15 fps. This has something to do with the fact that video windows are running with DirectX, which is different from how software is writing to the screen. This is fine for things like a front door camera. In fact, we have manufacturer of security systems using our UTMA displays to display 9 cameras at once, and they are happy with the video quality. What you don't want to do with these, and I think what DavidL was saying, is watch a DVD movie on them. The refresh rate limitation affects video windows only, not the rest of the desktop.

Unlike the airpanel or other thin client, these devices are not a PC and have no OS. The Windows session is running on the host PC, in the background, and rendered on the device. The rendering is done across the network and is rendering 100% of the time. There is no OS on the device. In contrast, the airpanel uses CE as its OS.

To say that an airpanel on ebay is the same as these units is ridiculous. The airpanel is a wireless replacement for your monitor. It was designed by Microsoft and Viewsonic to allow you to occasionally disconnect your monitor from your PC and carry it around the house. The ipTouch products, with NComputing's L200 technology inside, were designed as true in-wall touch screens that share one host computer, running multiple sessions, each with their own IP address, on the host PC.

There is a large performance difference between the airpanel and ipTouch. Our company used to stock and sell the airpanel as part of our product offering so I know them well. They were slow and not always responsive. With a properly sized host PC, the ipTouch is so responsive that you will forget that its not a PC.

There are some limitations to this and any type of similar product. But for many users the limitations far outweigh the costs. For the others, our RelayTouch product is the same as the ipTouch, except without the NComputing inside. With RelayTouch, you can use a variety of cable or extender products to connect the monitor to a PC. You can use individual separate PCs, or one server with multiple video cards. Its even compatible with Vista.

I have a lot of respect for the DIY crowd, and I myself purchase products from eBay to experiment with and roll my own. When I buy from eBay, I understand that I am taking the risk that if the product doesn't do what I wanted it to, or didn't particularly fit my use, then I am stuck with it. Our policy has been and always will be that if you don't like our products for any reason you can return them for a full refund.

#30 Frunple

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 07:48 AM

Keep in mind, these are not true pc touchscreen. They are terminal services clients. They simply run a remote desktop session to a host pc. This is the real reason they wont run video mentioned earlier in this post. remote desktop doesnt have a true refresh rate, it simply repaints the screen when needed.

You can get a viewsonic airpanel v150 for around $300 on ebay with a 15" screen and its the same as these units.


A few corrections:

They will indeed run video. The refresh rate of the video window itself is limited to about 15 fps. This has something to do with the fact that video windows are running with DirectX, which is different from how software is writing to the screen. This is fine for things like a front door camera. In fact, we have manufacturer of security systems using our UTMA displays to display 9 cameras at once, and they are happy with the video quality. What you don't want to do with these, and I think what DavidL was saying, is watch a DVD movie on them. The refresh rate limitation affects video windows only, not the rest of the desktop.

Unlike the airpanel or other thin client, these devices are not a PC and have no OS. The Windows session is running on the host PC, in the background, and rendered on the device. The rendering is done across the network and is rendering 100% of the time. There is no OS on the device. In contrast, the airpanel uses CE as its OS.

To say that an airpanel on ebay is the same as these units is ridiculous. The airpanel is a wireless replacement for your monitor. It was designed by Microsoft and Viewsonic to allow you to occasionally disconnect your monitor from your PC and carry it around the house. The ipTouch products, with NComputing's L200 technology inside, were designed as true in-wall touch screens that share one host computer, running multiple sessions, each with their own IP address, on the host PC.

There is a large performance difference between the airpanel and ipTouch. Our company used to stock and sell the airpanel as part of our product offering so I know them well. They were slow and not always responsive. With a properly sized host PC, the ipTouch is so responsive that you will forget that its not a PC.

There are some limitations to this and any type of similar product. But for many users the limitations far outweigh the costs. For the others, our RelayTouch product is the same as the ipTouch, except without the NComputing inside. With RelayTouch, you can use a variety of cable or extender products to connect the monitor to a PC. You can use individual separate PCs, or one server with multiple video cards. Its even compatible with Vista.

I have a lot of respect for the DIY crowd, and I myself purchase products from eBay to experiment with and roll my own. When I buy from eBay, I understand that I am taking the risk that if the product doesn't do what I wanted it to, or didn't particularly fit my use, then I am stuck with it. Our policy has been and always will be that if you don't like our products for any reason you can return them for a full refund.



Listen, you guys can bring up any points you want. Bottom line, they both do the same thing, except one cost 1/3 the price of the other.
When all is said and done, they're both just touch screens.
You guys have your opinions, I have mine.... I also have more money in my pocket for other things because of that opinion.




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