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dual use for a cat5 run?


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#1 jlokanis

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 12:49 PM

Hi,

Is there any reason why I cannot use one cat5 for two sensors? I would like to connect a motion sensor and a glass break that are located near eachother with a single cat5 run. Since each is a 4 wire decive, this should work, right?

Also, can I use a single cat5 for a glass break and the ELk speaker that comes with the kit? Is cat5 wire heavy enough for the speaker?

Finally, are there any cameras out there that can run off a cat5 only (no RG or other wire)? I have some locations with a cat5 pulled that I would like to have a camera.

Thanks!

-John

#2 upstatemike

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 12:58 PM

Interesting that you should ask about the cameras. I just got off the phone with Jim at Automated Outlet and we talked quite a bit about running both power and video through a single cat-5. You just put $13 balun on the BNC connector of a standard camera and you are all set. (Of course you will need another balun at the other end of the cat-5 cable as well.) You should have no problem using your existing wire for a camera.

2 sensors on 1 cat-5? No problem.

Elk speaker on cat-5? No problem.

#3 jaysonc

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 04:51 PM

The terminology you are looking for is "power over ethernet" or "POE".

This is the technical term for the IEEE standard to run 12-48 VDC (the amount can vary depending on the equipment vendor) over one of the unused pair of wires in an ethernet cable. You actually only use 2 of the 4 pair to transmit the data.

Several IP cameras on the market come with POE support, so all you need is a POE injector that places the the sme voltage on the cable as your camera needs and you will be golden.

#4 IVB

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 05:01 PM

Interesting that you should ask about the cameras. I just got off the phone with Jim at Automated Outlet and we talked quite a bit about running both power and video through a single cat-5. You just put $13 balun on the BNC connector of a standard camera and you are all set. (Of course you will need another balun at the other end of the cat-5 cable as well.) You should have no problem using your existing wire for a camera.

2 sensors on 1 cat-5? No problem.

Elk speaker on cat-5? No problem.

Dang. I ordered an RG58/18-2 cable spool last night from tri-state electronics. Got shipment confirmation just now.

And here I've got 950' of CAT5e left. I'm sure i'll use it, but this would have been a fantastic way to have a single cable type running through my use.

Missed it by "that" much.

#5 Dan (electron)

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 05:19 PM

I use cat5 for many things, including video/power over 1 run, other runs contain IR, phone, speakers, etc. I use cat5e whenever I can.

As for your sensors, if you had a the power supply to back it, you could get away with using just 1 pair for power to both devices (assuming they are both the same voltage).

#6 upstatemike

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 05:22 PM

I was trying to order a spool of the same Siamese RG58+18/2 but got sticker shock and was driven to re-engineer my system to something more economical. Hope you got a better price than I was quoted!

BTW What kind of cameras are you putting in. (Or did I already ask you that in another thread?) That is the one piece I still haven't nailed down.

#7 acheslow

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 05:23 PM

Greyfox also has some cameras that run over cat-5. The cameras need to be home-run to a special camera module that provides power and converts the outputs to RCA jacks.

Since this module also includes a sequencer and the cameras are relatively inexpensive it turned out to be cost-effective for my particular needs.

http://www.onqlegran...ang/en/pid/1365

#8 upstatemike

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 06:14 PM

The terminology you are looking for is "power over ethernet" or "POE".

This is the technical term for the IEEE standard to run 12-48 VDC (the amount can vary depending on the equipment vendor) over one of the unused pair of wires in an ethernet cable. You actually only use 2 of the 4 pair to transmit the data.

Several IP cameras on the market come with POE support, so all you need is a POE injector that places the the sme voltage on the cable as your camera needs and you will be golden.

Just curious: Does POE specify which pair should be used for power? I would assume it would be the white/brown pair (4th pair). Would I be assuming correctly?

#9 IVB

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 07:09 PM

I was trying to order a spool of the same Siamese RG58+18/2 but got sticker shock and was driven to re-engineer my system to something more economical. Hope you got a better price than I was quoted!

BTW What kind of cameras are you putting in. (Or did I already ask you that in another thread?) That is the one piece I still haven't nailed down.

$130 for 500' RG59/18-2 spool.

Shipping for about 2000' of wire [that cable, firewire, straight 18-2, others] came out to about $36, no tax.

Toymaster hooked me up with some fancy hi-res vitek cameras that also have built in IR-LED for zero-light usage. I got some sample screenshots here. I used MS-paint to grab it, i've noticed that degrades the PQ a little, not terribly though.

What you'll see there is a screenshot over the web browser. I've noticed that it's significantly worse over the webbrowser than directly on the server, but unfortunately for me, that's not an option. With your quadsplitter and those cameras, you'll be set.

#10 upstatemike

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 07:21 PM

Wire price is about the same but you definitely got a better deal on shipping. Would have been about $30 for 1 roll in my quote.

#11 Steve

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 08:52 PM

hmmm, just curious why you got RG/59 over RG/6?

#12 upstatemike

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 08:59 PM

Many of the discussions on this forum have established that RG59 is the best choice for CCTV. RG6 will work OK if it has a solid copper center conductor but most RG6 is copper clad steel. That is fine for RF but suboptimal for video.

#13 Chakara

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 09:09 PM

Just curious: Does POE specify which pair should be used for power? I would assume it would be the white/brown pair (4th pair). Would I be assuming correctly?

Strangely enough, the spec (802.1af) says both. My understanding is that if the switch is providing the power it should be over the data pairs, but if an inline power injector is being used it works over the unused pairs.

Now, I say all of this from memory, a quick google will not confirm what my gut says is true.

#14 gcimmino

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 09:11 PM

The terminology you are looking for is "power over ethernet" or "POE".

This is the technical term for the IEEE standard to run 12-48 VDC (the amount can vary depending on the equipment vendor) over one of the unused pair of wires in an ethernet cable. You actually only use 2 of the 4 pair to transmit the data.

Several IP cameras on the market come with POE support, so all you need is a POE injector that places the the sme voltage on the cable as your camera needs and you will be golden.

Just curious: Does POE specify which pair should be used for power? I would assume it would be the white/brown pair (4th pair). Would I be assuming correctly?

Jaysonc and UpstateMike, I believe u2 are discussing use of an IP cam with POE and everyone else is simply looking to use Cat5 cabling with a regular analog video cam to carry the analog signal plus power.

Regarding POE pin outs. here's a couple of links with info:

http://www.panduit.c...gies/098749.asp

http://www.powerover...p?article_id=52

Note that POE uses both of the remaining 2 pairs.

I'm using Panasonic's inexpensive BL-C10A netcams with some "off spec" POE adapters since the BL-C10's run off of 9V.

#15 toymaster458

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 09:29 PM

Here is a good Tech document on RG59 VS RG6 for CCTV
ftp://www.pelco.com/ServiceBulletinsTechT...ips/5973021.PDF




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