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ELK programming for lighting


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#1 123

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Posted 02 October 2007 - 11:18 AM

The M1G Reference Manual has several pages that describe the automation capabilities of the M1G. It shows a few pictures of the ELK-RP software and they're not of the latest release.

For example, the manual indicates there is a Lighting column titled "2-way" and it does not exist in the current version of ELK-RP (1.6.16). The column is now called "Future" and I don't know its purpose other than "nothing for now".

The "Type" field offers "Standard, Extended, PresetDim, Compose". I believe the first three indicate the capabilities of a given X10 device but what is "Compose"? What effect do these options have if the lighting device is not X10? Where is the documentation for these options?

Edited by 123, 02 October 2007 - 11:20 AM.


#2 Spanky

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Posted 02 October 2007 - 12:02 PM

The "Two Way" column on the earlier ELKRP software was for reference to the installer to let him know that the switch was a two way switch. It served no operational purpose.

#3 WayneW

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Posted 02 October 2007 - 12:15 PM

"Compose" refers to a brand name of a product line from Lightolier.

from when I asked the same question on the Elk forum:
http://m1dealer.elkp...PHPWS_MAN_ITEMS[]=104

Posted by dlamb on 09/30/2005 11:42:
The "Extended" format in the Lighting category is for the Leviton DHC (Decora Home Controls) devices. They are capable of using extended message data and executing group functions. Standard, Extended (Leviton), Preset Dim, and Compose (Lightolier) formats require the PSC05 (or equiv.) Powerline Interface connected to the J5 connector on the ELK-M1. "Serial Expander" format requires an ELK-M1XSP connected to the ELK-M1 data bus which then connects to a "Serial Interface Module" from the lighting manufacturer. The following products utilize the "serial expander" format: UPB (PCS and Simply Automated), ALC (OnQ), LiteJet (Centralite), i-Line (EDT), Radio RA (Lutron), Z-Wave, and others to come. In a future release of ELK-RP, there will be the ability to include the fade rate to a rule for many of the "Serial Expander" format Lighting devices.



#4 123

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Posted 02 October 2007 - 03:14 PM

Shame on me for not searching ELK's forum! However, this information should be documented in the manual ... (pretty please).

I'm slowly unleashing the features of my new M1G and I just listed all my X10 devices. Most of them are Switchlincs and the "PresetDim" setting appears to control them properly.

#5 mjjafari

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Posted 15 July 2021 - 11:59 PM

Shame on me for not searching ELK's forum! However, this information should be documented in the manual ... (pretty please).

I'm slowly unleashing the features of my new M1G and I just listed all my X10 devices. Most of them are Switchlincs and the "PresetDim" setting appears to control them properly.

I'm in Australia and trying desperately to get an ELK M1 to control an X-10 lighting with no luck , is there anyone who can help me here ?



#6 BraveSirRobbin

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Posted 16 July 2021 - 09:15 AM

I'm in Australia and trying desperately to get an ELK M1 to control an X-10 lighting with no luck , is there anyone who can help me here ?

What have you done so far?  What X-10 interface are you using with the Elk M1?  What X-10 devices are you using?



#7 mjjafari

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 12:31 AM

  • Before we upgrade to M1 , the X10 was connected via the same interface I'm using to a HAI OMNI Pro2 and it was working fine 
  • The M1 is connected to the X10 via a power interface , I've tried two different one ( X-10 Powerhouse XM10E-120) (Winplus HA124) , these interfaces were working with HAI before we changed to M1
  • I'm using the black X10 port on M1
  • I've tried the jumper on M1 that changes the X10 from 1way to 2way 
  • in Elk RP , I have programmed all the unit numbers as per their settings and have selected standard format (tested with opt ticked and unticked )
  • I'm not new to M1 or automation but have never used X10 before 
  • part of the issue is I have no way of diagnosing this issue , I don't know whether M1 is sending out wrong info to the interface or whether the interface is not doing its job 
  • I'm looking very stupid here since it was working with OMNI Pro2


#8 BraveSirRobbin

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Posted 17 July 2021 - 09:22 AM

It has been a long time (seven years or so) since I had an Elk M1 and I've never owned an HAI system; but, are you using the same cable between the X-10 interface and the Elk as you did for the Omni?

 

I used a TW-523 interface with my Elk and remember the cable is reverse pinouts of a typical telephone cable.  Also, it had a red LED that would blink when a command was sent/received.

 

I would plug the interface into an outlet extension cord with something like an X-10 light or appliance module to start (the appliance module is ideal as you can hear it click when activated).

 

I'm sure others with more recent pertinent experience will chime in here as well.



#9 mjjafari

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Posted 18 July 2021 - 01:14 AM

Thats a very good point, but the issue is I cannot find any info on the pinout of the X10 connector on M1 , do you have that info ?

#10 pete_c

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Posted 18 July 2021 - 05:56 AM

Here on my OmniPro 2 panel have a RJ11 (4 wires) to the TW-523 (Volp dual phased TW-523).  Still using it fine today.

 

I just ran a 4 pin telephone flat cable from the OmniPro 2 panel X10 port to the TW523 40 or 50 feet.  If it doesn't work then just flip the end of it by cutting it and putting a new end on it.

 

I posted this in 2014 here on Cocoontech.

 

http://cocoontech.co...10-port-pinout/

 

Thinking that the RJ-12 that is used on the OPII was configured as:

 

Pin Signal Description

1 DCD Data Carrier Detect (IN)
2 RXD Receive Data (IN)
3 DTR/RTS Data Terminal Ready/ Request To Send (OUT)
4 GND Ground
5 TXD Transmit Data (OUT)
6 CTS Receive Hardware Flow Control

 

The X-10 port uses only 4 pins

 

DB9 -> RJ-11 
-> 1
3 -> 3
-> 4



#11 mjjafari

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Posted 18 July 2021 - 06:00 AM

Thanks Pete, I actually need this info for ELK M1 X10 port, It seems ELK has not published the pinout of their X10 port ( J5)

#12 pete_c

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Posted 18 July 2021 - 06:28 AM

I am going with what BSR mentions above...
 
I used a TW-523 interface with my Elk and remember the cable is reverse pinouts of a typical telephone cable.  Also, it had a red LED that would blink when a command was sent/received.
 
This is the same as the OmniPro 2 panel.
 
The TW-523 and CM-11A use the same 4 wire flat telephone cable which can only plug in one way to the Elk panel.
 
Look at this Cocoontech thread from 2008.
 
[url="%5Burl="%5D%5Burl="http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/12021-elk-m1g-and-x10/"]http://cocoontech.co...lk-m1g-and-x10/[/url][/url]
 
and this thread from 2007
 
[url="%5Burl="%5D%5Burl="http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/8254-elk-m1g-x10-troubleshooting-help/?hl=x10"]http://cocoontech.co...ng-help/?hl=x10[/url][/url]
 
This was the error happenend to me:
Yes, I used a standard 4 conductor telefone cable ...
but the connectors on the ends where not showing in the same direction.
And so the conductors of the connection were twisted ... and nothing works.
After turning/changing one Bell/Western-cube, all worked.

 
NOTE: it is not a standard telephone cable and you have to reverse the end to make it work.  You cannot break anything or short out anything.  Just cut the end and insert/crimp a new end to it.  Thinking you can purchase an RJ12 (6 wire) flat telephone cable from MonoPrice.  It is sold as a telephone cable or data cable (flipped end).
 
Monoprice does sell both RJ11 data and telephone cables here ==>
 
[url="%5Burl="%5D%5Burl="https://www.monoprice.com/category/cables/data-cables/phone-cables"]https://www.monopric...es/phone-cables[/url][/url]
 
These are 6 pin 4 conductor cables with RJ11's on the ends of them.

 

I added electrical boxes to the fuse panel here  - separate breakers per box - The electrical outlet boxes have UPB PIM, CM11A's and TW-523.  Next to the fuse panel I hard wired the Volp dual phased TW-523 device direct to the breakers inside of the panel.  These PIMs are connected the Leviton Media panel wall or the server rack.
 
Personally made my own cables for multiple X10 PIMs here.  CM11A's are connected to software on the server rack (50 feet away) and TW-523's are connected to the OmniPro 2 panel.  I do the same with UPB PIMs.  Here the OmniPro 2 panel is connected for X10, UPB, Zigbee and ZWave use (4 pims - all serial connections using flat telephone cable).



#13 RAL

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Posted 18 July 2021 - 04:54 PM

The M1 connects to a X10 PSC05 or equivalent with a standard modular phone cable.  Assuming the XM10E-120 uses the same pinout (seems likely, since it is a Powerhouse product), a standard RJ-11 cable is all you need. 

 

Note that a standard RJ-11 cable swaps the conductors end-to-end, so pin 1 of one side is connected to pin 4 on the other.

 

The pinout of a PSC05 is as shown below (the tab on the RJ-11 is on the underside, the flat side is up).   So the pinout of the Elk M1 jack would be reversed.   You shouldn't really need to worry about this level of detail - just use a standard RJ11 cable to connect them and you should be good to go.

 

index.php?app=gallery&module=images&sect



#14 mjjafari

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Posted 18 July 2021 - 07:41 PM

Thanks for everyone's help, I changed the cable and now the X10 interface doers a "double blink" when I send a command from M1, but none of the X10 devices respond. I'V programmed correct house and unit numbers in M1 , but no response. what are the common troubleshooting guides when X10 does not respond  ?



#15 pete_c

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Posted 18 July 2021 - 08:05 PM

Might be noise.

Purchase an old X10 chime and configure it as a test device A1 on the Elk M1.  Start by putting the chime device near the X10 PIM
 
You can also purchase an old CM11A and test signals using Windows or Linux these days...on your laptop...
 
Elk used to sell an X10 tester  ELK ESM1.  Not sure if they sell it any more.  Every once in a while I see them on Ebay.

Been using one of these for a few years now...works great with the OmniPro 2 panel.

XTB-IIR/+ High-Power 2-Phase X10 Repeater
 

 

Not sure if these devices are being sold anymore.






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