Need advice on HTPC/Media Server & Audio/Video Distribution

Hi Cocooners,
It's been a while since I've posted, but this group was invaluable in helping me plan my wiring, selecting the Elk, etc. Well it's now been over a year since I installed the wire, and I'd like to finally get some music out of it!

My biggest roadblock at the moment is I need a PC to manage my audio distribution. I have tried on several occasions to search this site for guidance on what's needed, and every time I do this I get more confused and temporarily give up. So I'm hoping some of you smart folks out there could point me in the right direction.

I'm somewhat already headed in a direction based on approaches laid out by several on this board (IVB & Jwilson come to mind, there are probably others...), meaning cheapo individual receivers (so far IR control only, but up for discussion), Fujitsu tablet PC for "remote control", M-Audio 410 sound card, and CQC. I have a central "closet" with home runs of speaker wire, Cat5 & RG6 to each zone.

In the short term, I am looking to be able to set up 4-5 individual zones to which I could distribute audio only. My wife and I are not huge music or video fanatics (we own possibly 10 CD's and 3 DVD's), but I would like to be able to store & distribute what we have (at least audio for now).

So back to the major question...what should I be looking for in a PC?

• I would like to keep it under $400
• I currently run XP Pro on my other home computers, which have Pentium processors...not sure if this matters??
• While my immediate desire is for audio only, it would nice to be able to eventually use this same PC to distribute video as well (i.e. would hate to have to buy a different PC later to accomplish this, but OK with purchasing extra storage, etc.)
• This would function as my CQC "server" as well, although right now my only plans for CQC are to interface to the audio distribution system

The secondary question is how to interface the PC with the receivers. I currently own 2 cheapo receives that I would like to use, but is it more cost effective to spend more on a serial controllable receiver to avoid the IR part of the system? Again, I get very confused on this topic as well. What would I need to control via IR? How about via serial?

Thanks in advance for any recommendations. Any and all advice is appreciated. Happy Thanksgiving to all!
Autoidiot

SageTV can do all that plus TV and pictures but not for $400. Really I don't think that budget is realistic.

For SageTV you would need.

A server PC, nothing too cool just an XP box more PCI slots the better. 10/100 network capable and more storage the better.
Network switch

You probably already have that stuff.

So for SageTV you would need to purchase.

SageTV Server Licence $70
x4 SageTV MVP client licenses $120
x4 Hauppauge MediaMVPs $400
x4 LCD of your choice to see whats going on. $800

So assuming you have a server to dedicate to this and network in place it's more like $1500.

To add in TV you would need video sources which run about $100 per source unless it's HD direct from the provider which is more like $800 per source.

(All those hardware prices are high guestimates, should be done cheaper.)

EDIT:

Now if you want to use your existing PCs as clients you can ditch the MediaMVP and LCD costs which gets you closer to $400 by quite a bit.

However the Windows clients aren't as stable...

CollinR said:

SageTV can do all that plus TV and pictures but not for $400. Really I don't think that budget is realistic.

For SageTV you would need.

A server PC, nothing too cool just an XP box more PCI slots the better. 10/100 network capable and more storage the better.
Network switch

You probably already have that stuff.

So for SageTV you would need to purchase.

SageTV Server Licence $70
x4 SageTV MVP client licenses $120
x4 Hauppauge MediaMVPs $400
x4 LCD of your choice to see whats going on. $800

So assuming you have a server to dedicate to this and network in place it's more like $1500.

To add in TV you would need video sources which run about $100 per source unless it's HD direct from the provider which is more like $800 per source.

(All those hardware prices are high guestimates, should be done cheaper.)

EDIT:

Now if you want to use your existing PCs as clients you can ditch the MediaMVP and LCD costs which gets you closer to $400 by quite a bit.

However the Windows clients aren't as stable...

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. I just scanned over the SageTV & Hauppauge MVP websites, and I think I understand what they're all about. If I understand correctly, this would allow me to play audio or video from my computer on any TV (or amplifier/receiver I suppose if I chose audio-only) at each zone. Let me try to clarify my original post, because I might have thrown you off a bit (or I'm even more confused which is certainly possible):

• The $400 budget is for the PC server only. My primary question is what to look for in the PC (processor, storage, OS, Importance of RAID, SATA, and other things I don't understand...)
• The 4-5 zones I'm interested in are "whole house" audio only
• When I get to Video, I'm probably lnterested in 2-3 zones
• The intent is to keep all "whole house audio" receivers/amplifiers in the central closet

So it sounds to me like the SageTV/HauppaugeMVP option is a good one for video/TV distribution when I get there, but I don't see how it addresses the whole house audio needs.
Thanks Again,
Autoidiot

for a CQC/audio server, you really need very little horsepower. I'd still recommend an entry-level C2D in case you put something else on that box later, you'll have 2 cpu's (ie, database software as the CQC db fxnlty is growing).

But, you'll want a mobo with at least 1, ideally 2 RAID arrays on it. Use a RAID1 for boot disc so if one fails you're set, and a 2nd RAID1 (or RAID5) to hold your a/v stuff. Those are inherently SATA so you're locked in there. For memory, get 2GB and you're set.

A mobo like that is $120, it would be tough to get the case/HDD's/cpu/memory/operating system for $380. You might be able to do it for $600 though.

For the audio bit, you'll need something like the M-Audio Delta 410 for your server so you can get multiple concurrent CD streams, but those are pretty cheap on eBay.

For IR control, you'd need something like the USB-UIRT blaster/receiver if they're in the same location as the server, but dang it's much much nicer to get serial controllable receivers. CQC has a crapload of receiver drivers now, i'm sure you could find *something* supported in the $400-ish neighborhood.

Video requires much more PC than audio does. I think your budget is reasonable if you focus on audio only. I don't use CQC so I can't comment on that aspect... but to run multiple zones audio with a Delta410 using JRiver - a very weak PC would be very capable. I've run 3 or 4 zones of musics simultaneous with only 2-3% of CPU being utilized.

Personally, I don't see the advantage of RAID for music - its easy enough to back up your harddrives.

Sage is a fantastic video system, and will allow you to have multiple zones of video wired simply through Cat5 network. However it requires a beefier PC for the server (and simple extenders at each TV). It supports music as well but then you would need amps where your extenders are located (not good for a centrally wired system). My Sage server probably cost me $1500 (not including extenders)... but I can record 5 video streams at once (including HD) and watch TV or DVDs on any or all of 5 TVs simultaneously. Way overkill for music, but perfect for video.

So (my opinion), you have a couple options:
- spend a little now, get audio working; spend more later on another server and get video and CQC working (I don't know, maybe CQC would be fine on a low horsepower PC and you can run it on your low grade music server)
or
- spend more now, get 1 beefy PC, use it for audio, CQC, and add video when you are ready.

If you are going to take a while before adding video, I'd opt for option 1. PC prices/performance are always getting better and what you'd spend to build a good Sage server now will be much less in 6 months or a year. If you are ready to do video now as well as audio, then build 1 "hoss" of a PC and you'll be good to go for many years.

CQC needs very little, my 4 year old AMD2500 with 512MB of RAM was insulted by how little CPU it required when that was all it did.

spend more now, get 1 beefy PC, use it for audio, CQC, and add video when you are ready.

Click to expand...

Keep in mind that in my experience, CCTV is just as bad (or worse) than streaming video. Not only do you capture the inbound stream to disk, but the software typically takes up a bit of CPU.

I currently have an older 2.8GHz/1GB RAM machine running CQC & CCTV(AverMedia). The AverMedia app alone takes up 50-70% of my 2.8GHz cpu, and occasionally throttles to 100% (esp when I VPN in). It's currently choking out CQC randomly, so i'll sporadically get horrific load times on my interfaces.

When I had a SageTV/CQC combined server, SageTV wasn't *nearly* as bad as that; heck, it would rarely go over 30% cpu total.

then build 1 "hoss" of a PC and you'll be good to go for many years.

Click to expand...

I'm wondering whether always way overarchitecting for HA/HT stuff is a good thing. I have an answer to my CQC is getting choked issues, but check it out: I've got an E6800 C2D machine ($1000 cpu - it was a gift) that i'm seriously underutilizing in my den, but the "right" answer is for me to make that the HTPC, and move the E6300 C2D HTPC to the CQC/CCTV server, and put the 2.8GHz in the den, but it's exhausting for me to type that much less do all the work.

Get the C2D now, and don't worry about what else you might load on that box later. You can get the entry-level E4500 for $130 now; if you want to push it you can easily swap out the cpu without mucking with drivers/etc. It's worth the freakin hassle.

BTW, absolutely positively stick with Intel - most CCTV apps don't like AMD at all.

Thanks for all the answers. I'm still trying to absorb & understand much of it. I think in an ideal world, I'd like to come up with a compromise solution for the PC, meaning something capable of letting me start "playing" with video, but doesn't need to store 100 DVD's and play different sources on 5 TV's simultaneously.

I was scanning some of the refurbished PC's on TigerDirect.com,
TigerDirect Refurbs
and there seem to be some packages in the range of $350-$500 with the dual core E4300 or E4400. These all seem to have Vista...any issues with that? Is there a "big" performance drop on these vs the E4500? Am I getting close with any of these? Any concerns about refurbs? Other thoughts?

If I really could "build my own" for $600 and up with something that could ultimately serve all my needs, that may be the best option...but I'm going to need lots of help. I don't have the first clue what to look for in terms of cases, memory, mother boards, etc.

Thanks Again & Happy Turkey Day to all,
Autoidiot

We can help with the cases/etc, if you're comfortable assembling it. Pretty dang easy.

I'd stay as far away from vista as I can get - whilst certain apps (ie, CQC) may work ok under it, between the DRM, other apps not working (SageTV & AverMedia), and a lack of stable drivers for many hardware cards, you'll be pissed off.

I have no real issues with refurbs, other than wondering if you're really saving that much money, esp if you compare the detailed specs. Here's a solid solid upper/mid-level system that will give you room to grow.

(all from newegg, other places could be a little cheaper but not much):
$130: Intel E4500
$100: Antec Sonata case plus power supply
$120 :Intel brand 965 chipset motherboard with 2 RAID arrays (1 for boot, 1 for CDs if you want). This also has onboard video so you don't need a graphics card.
$50: 2 x 1GB = 2GB of memory
$160: TWO 80GB SATA drives for boot for RAID1
$65: One 250GB SATA drive for CDs. You can always put more on or go to RAID1 if you want later, although it is a little PITA.
$140: XP Pro. Overkill as XP Home works fine, but in case you ever want to RDP there's no woulda coulda shoulda

That's $765. You could easily cut some money here/there, but for that you get RAID1 on boot, 250GB for data, onboard video, 2 RAID capability, gigabit ethernet and s/pdif optical audio on the mobo. That is mind-crushingly better than those POS refurbs, and the $400 you'd save would be more than wasted with the additional heartache.

I'm with IVB, I'm not big on refurbs. I'm sure many refurbs are fine, but they make me nervous for a "system critical" PC. I'd rather build a PC that is easy to upgrade later...

How about XP Media Center? Has the XP Pro base (important for sharing priv's) and runs about $25 cheaper. Of course, would never use ANY of the Media Center parts...

I have never saved any money with refurbs and now ONLY build 'em. Love Newegg but always compare with ZipZoomFly.

I think there's a few folks using MCE for CQC,can't imagine it's that big a difference. I've never personally used it - I wonder why it's cheaper...

IVB said:

We can help with the cases/etc, if you're comfortable assembling it. Pretty dang easy.

I'd stay as far away from vista as I can get - whilst certain apps (ie, CQC) may work ok under it, between the DRM, other apps not working (SageTV & AverMedia), and a lack of stable drivers for many hardware cards, you'll be pissed off.

I have no real issues with refurbs, other than wondering if you're really saving that much money, esp if you compare the detailed specs. Here's a solid solid upper/mid-level system that will give you room to grow.

(all from newegg, other places could be a little cheaper but not much):
$130: Intel E4500
$100: Antec Sonata case plus power supply
$120 :Intel brand 965 chipset motherboard with 2 RAID arrays (1 for boot, 1 for CDs if you want). This also has onboard video so you don't need a graphics card.
$50: 2 x 1GB = 2GB of memory
$160: TWO 80GB SATA drives for boot for RAID1
$65: One 250GB SATA drive for CDs. You can always put more on or go to RAID1 if you want later, although it is a little PITA.
$140: XP Pro. Overkill as XP Home works fine, but in case you ever want to RDP there's no woulda coulda shoulda

That's $765. You could easily cut some money here/there, but for that you get RAID1 on boot, 250GB for data, onboard video, 2 RAID capability, gigabit ethernet and s/pdif optical audio on the mobo. That is mind-crushingly better than those POS refurbs, and the $400 you'd save would be more than wasted with the additional heartache.

Click to expand...

Thanks IVB. This is a huge help. I think I am capable of building the computer, although I've never done it before. I'm sure there's plenty of "how to's" on the internet, so I can probably stumble my way through it. Quick question...the link for the 80Gb drives shows a price of $43/ea, so should only be $86 right. Did I just save $74, or is this the wrong drive?

Ooops, that was $160 metric. $86 US is correct

IVB said:

Get the C2D now, and don't worry about what else you might load on that box later.

Click to expand...

IVB, I'm working on pricing/building my system now. No Pentium 4 3.4 GHz? Your recommendation is Core2Duo. I'm looking at the Intel DQ965GFEKR mobo. I've specified two RAID 1's, two 160GB for boot, and two 500GB for data.

Yes, C2D, not b/c of CQC, but b/c of any future growth capabilities (CCTV or database software or SageTV or ....). That way there's less of a concern about a runaway process choking CQC.