ADT/Ademco wireless motionsensors w/Elk or Caddx?

[tanstaaf1]

I've previously invested a lot of money in an ADT panel and, mostly, the wireless sensors: especially the wireless motion sensors. The wireless motion are ADEMCO model 5890. Does anyone know if they can be used with an Elk M1 Gold or even a Caddx NX8e?

I expect to be buying AT LEAST one new security panel today or tomorrow, as my business got burgled Friday night and I was caught with my pants down. Under the circumstances, I got of easier than should have someone who knew better. I also need to make final motion sensor decisions on my whole house automation project and I need to know if these existing sensors are likely to work with anything other than the stock ADT panel.

If nothing else, I'd expect one of you hackers would have already broken the protocol on the ADT wireless sensors and figured out how to intercept the messages?

I've probably talked to a dozen different people at ADT so far, just trying to get an answer on whether they will support one of the smarter panels; no answer yet. It's really pretty shocking how "oblivious" nearly all their personnel are to the very idea of home automation!

 

[Spanky]

Sorry, the Ademco/ADT transmitters only work with Ademco. They will not work with the Caddx and therefore not with the ELK M1.

Numerous requests have been made to work with the Ademco transmitters.

 

[tanstaaf1]

Sorry, the Ademco/ADT transmitters only work with Ademco. They will not work with the Caddx and therefore not with the ELK M1.

Numerous requests have been made to work with the Ademco transmitters.

Thanks. I had recently gotten the same sad news from a conversation with Brad at Elk. I guess ADEMCO is acting "proprietary" even though, in this case, they apparently don't even have a competing usable panel.

Does anyone know if ADEMCO has a panel which will at least share information out, ala the Caddx 8Xe?

I'm waiting for a call back from an ADT tech person who, at least, understands the concepts of home automation and is looking into whether ADT can support either a Caddx or an Elk. He may be giving your company a call (he was familiar with Elk and said they used to work with Elk when Elk was called a "Moose"?)

It looks like I'm going to be selling five thousand dollars of ADEMCO wireless equipment on the aftermarket. Oh, the price I'm paying for what I didn't know even a year ago....

 

[Spanky]

Moose Products turned into GE Security, and the talents of Moose turned into ELK.

Confusing????? Just changed the antliers!

 

[tanstaaf1]

Moose Products turned into GE Security, and the talents of Moose turned into ELK.

Confusing????? Just changed the antliers!

If I had some antlers right now, I'd probably want to gore ademco aka Honeywell.

I called Honeywell up to ask if they had either a different security panel or a bridge of some sort that would open up their sensor information to me. After travelling their phone tree and selecting "homeowner" I got a message which said only (paraphrasing per memory here):

"You have three choices for support: (1) look for a local installer (2) contact X organization. (3) contact Y organization. <click>"

Just like that, I was summarily hung up on by the phone tree. No "We're sorry we can't help you, no nothing. Arrogant SOBs. I wrote an email, trying to stress my multiple development properties and reasonablenss of my request for information, but I'm not hopeful.

The local ADT rep is still trying to get an answer of whether ADT can even monitor an Elk or Caddx panel if I buy one.

Can you possibly tell me if there is an installer and monitoring company that can use Elk in the Sacramento area? I suppose the monitoring can even be national. Any leads?

This is almost enough to induce me to start my own security company to cater to the folks who want to wear antlers!

 

[Spanky]

10 years ago ADT had their own central station protocol. I have not kept up with ADT to know if their central stations can receive security industry standard protocols. I would think they could. You may want to shop around for a better deal from an independent central station anywhere in the US.

 

[Digger]

The Honeywell/Ademco equipment either ADT version or Ademco version is mainly marketed to prefessional installers and not the the DIY market that I know of. They really dont support the DIY community.

I have friends that work at Honeywell and I had a Honeywell system in use in my home. I wound up ripping that out and installing an ELK when I had the chance to experiment with an ELK panel. In order to get most of the capabilities that the ELK has on one board you would need to buy a higher end Honeywell panel, several additional modules, and still not have everything that the ELK can do. The higher cost of the ELK initial outlay is actually not higher in the end if you want most or all of the feature of the ELK in a Honeywell system (trust me my wife made me crunch the numbers).

Dont get me wrong the Honewell products are great products but they are for a different market then most of us on here. If you want an alarm installed in your home or business and have security/fire protection and maybe some automation there are installers that will do that. If you want even more automation then the ELK and a few others are a more suitable product in my opinion.

There are a ton of Honeywell/Ademco products available on Ebay for very reasonable prices (those back doors of the trucks must not be locked or something) but there are some good deals on Caddix RF devices as well. I have been patient and bought lots of Caddix RF devices to go with my ELK from Ebay and for the most part never had a problem.

 

[jeffx]

The Ademco/Honeywell Vista 128BP can communicate with any home automation controller via a serial interface. I use HAL2000 with Vista 128BP and it works great. It works with all the ademco 5800 series wireless sensors and more. Here is a link to the Honeywell home automation document:

http://www.ademco.com/pdf/Home%20Automation.pdf

 

[tanstaaf1]

The Ademco/Honeywell Vista 128BP can communicate with any home automation controller via a serial interface. I use HAL2000 with Vista 128BP and it works great. It works with all the ademco 5800 series wireless sensors and more. Here is a link to the Honeywell home automation document:

http://www.ademco.com/pdf/Home%20Automation.pdf

Thanks Jeffx! I couldn't find out about this from either the ADT rep or the ADEMCO wholesaler ADI; I have a Vista 30, so at least it is in the same line!

Now I can go back to ADT and see if they can get this and if it will support my ADEMCO sensors (let's hope so, but things haven't been going too well in the commonsense department lately).

Next, of course, I'd need to figure out how to tie it to my stargate system or powerhome...and thus to Insteon. Or I suppose I can thow all THAT investment away and switch to HAL? At least it is "doable" and that is a big step. Thanks again!

(This is SUCH a great forum; such a wide base of experience)

 

[Digger]

Be careful that you dont get a Vista-128B (no P). I dont think that panel supports home automation. At the very least double check with Honeywell before you buy it. The Vista-128BP supports the automation with the RS-232 output.

 

[Steve]

Next, of course, I'd need to figure out how to tie it to my stargate system or powerhome...and thus to Insteon. Or I suppose I can thow all THAT investment away and switch to HAL? At least it is "doable" and that is a big step. Thanks again!

Wow, it gets more complex by the post. Sure, anything is doable, but how much is your time and sanity worth? I would strongly recommend trying to narrow it down to no more than 3 components, 2 preferred (hardware controller & software package). Your life will be much simpler in the end.

 

[jeffx]

Yes, ADT does carry/support the 128BP (they list it I believe as the 128BPADT). You can even link multiple 128BP panels together for cetralized control of multiple buildings.

I posted the question to Dave on the Powerhome board about integrating this panel with Powerhome:

http://www.myx10.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=477

I'm not familar with the Stargate at all, so I don't know where best to find that information.

I have found that the following HA controllers/apps do work with this panel already:

HAL2000
Homeseer
Homevision? (I remember seeing a link before but can't find it right now)

 

[tanstaaf1]

Yes, ADT does carry/support the 128BP (they list it I believe as the 128BPADT).
....

jeffx, Do you know if my existing wireless motion sensors (ademco 5890) will work with the panel? Did you convert from a lower model and were you able to keep most of your peripherals? The whole point of going to this trouble is to keep my existing investment in peripherals; if I was going from scratch I'd get an Elk I'm pretty sure....

 

[tanstaaf1]

One other question: if I buy HARDWIRED motion detectors from now on am I going to have a similar problem of sensors only working with proprietary alarm panels? I would think not - I would think the signal would be simple like a door switch with the address resolved by the home-run signal line and all sensors working with any brand panel - but I thought I'd better ask.

 

[rfdesq]

A hardwired motion detector is usually a NC (normally closed) switch contact. Some detectors have both NC and NO (normally open) contacts.