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Advice on flood sensor choices

mikesm

Member
Hello everyone!  We're building a house and it will have an ELK M1G security system along with a homeseer automation system (I'm an engineer, so the tech is pretty easy for me) like our current home does. I want to instrument the the toilets, and the laundry and the sinks with flood sensors (we'd have issues in the past with leaks), and the ELK system is wired to control water shutoff valves that can cut off house water as well as discrete valves on the washing machines, etc...
 
I am trying to decide between using the Trident flood sensor that can interface to the Elk system: http://resolutionproducts.com/products/environmental/trident/, or the Fibaro Zwave flood sensor: https://www.fibaro.com/en/products/flood-sensor/ .
 
The thing that is nice about the trident is that it has a 10 year battery life, and can interface nicely to the security system to turn the valves on etc...  The sensor has nice probes, and communicates with the panel using either the GE or Honeywell wireless protocols.  It's pretty cheap, and looks nice, plus has a nice wall mount bracket so I can mount it to the wall so it doesn't get moved around when people clean around it.  It also has a temp sensor that alarms when it gets too cold or two hot.  
 
The bad thing about it is that it's a one way sensor, and if it can't talk to the panel I'll get an alert after awhile, but not right away so I can correlate it with some event.
 
The fibaro sensor is also pretty nice.  It is battery powered and can go approx 2 years before a swap, but can be connected to DC so the battery just becomes backup.  It too has a nice set of pin sensors to sense water like the trident, but has a pair of contacts for an additional water sensor like a leak rope.  I have tried this with the honeywell leak rope that comes with their cheap alarms, and it works really well with that.
 
The Fibaro also has a pair of contacts that can be hardwired to an alarm system, in addition to talking Zwave to homeseer.  This is nice because if I put it under the laundry machines etc..., the mesh network should always have a path to talk to it, whereas the trident depends on a one way path to the wireless receiver for the M1G (though I can add more wireless interfaces to help make sure sensors will be able to communicate).  The zwave capability is nice is that I can interrogate it easily, and if it gets moved around (it can alarm on that), I can tell that's happened and make sure it's in the right place.  And the homeseer system can tell the Elk to turn off the water if it's detected.
 
The downsides of the fibaro are the shorter battery life, and the lack of a wall mount to keep it tethered in one spot.  I could extend a zone along with DC power from the elk in something like an RJ11 connector on the wall near the sensor and wire it into the alarm system, but I'm not sure how that would look next to a toilet etc...
 
What do folks think would be best for my application?
 
thx
mike
 
 
 
 
 
 

lanbrown

Active Member
The Aeotec Zwave Plus Water Sensor 6 doesn't have the contacts to be wired into a panel but they do have a dock.  The dock allows it to be powered via USB with the batteries as a backup and can have two sensors attached to it.  It also reports the temperature as well.  I have two of the Water Sensor 6 units and two docks.  I've been happy with them.
 
I've found that the Aeotec firmware has been better than the Fibaro line.  So if you decide to go down the Zwave path, you might want to look at the Aeotec units as well.
 

mikesm

Member
lanbrown said:
The Aeotec Zwave Plus Water Sensor 6 doesn't have the contacts to be wired into a panel but they do have a dock.  The dock allows it to be powered via USB with the batteries as a backup and can have two sensors attached to it.  It also reports the temperature as well.  I have two of the Water Sensor 6 units and two docks.  I've been happy with them.
 
I've found that the Aeotec firmware has been better than the Fibaro line.  So if you decide to go down the Zwave path, you might want to look at the Aeotec units as well.
 
That looks like a neat sensor, and the dock looks nice, but even without the dock, it'd double the price of the fibaro unit.  At least I haven't found a low price anywhere so far.  :)
 
What is the battery life like?
 
thx
mike
 

lanbrown

Active Member
I can't speak to the battery life as both of mine have USB power.  In the attic I had to run a cable for a My Q gateway (it stays in the attic) so I have a PoE splitter.  This PoE splitter goes into en electrical junction box and it has an PoE Ethernet port on the back.  On the front there is just an Ethernet jack and two USB ports.  I use a USB splitter on one of the ports and it goes to both Aeotec Water Sensor 6 units.  The other USB port and Ethernet jack go to the My Q gateway.  My switch is PoE+ and all three devices combined don't even hit 15.4 watts.  Another way to look at it; each Aeotec can use USB power which is 5 volts x 5 Amps or 2.5 watts.  I have two of them and so that is 5 watts.  The My Q gateway itself doesn't even take 1.5 watts which was measured at the switch port with just it and the PoE splitter.
 
I've heard many complaints with Fibraro about firmware issues.
 
Another thing to make sure of, a lot of their products are not Z-Wave Plus but just Z-Wave.  Z-Wave Plus typically has better battery life, longer range and better throughout.
 
I have the Aeotec Gen5 USB stick, two water sensors with docks, a Multi Sensor 6 and a couple of the nano switches.  I've sued their support several times to come up with a solution using their products and they never disappointed.  Their product was never even designed to be used that way and they made sure my main requirement was met; the device could not cause a failure.  It was for a pump and I didn't want the nano switch to actually control it but there were lights that showed when it ran and if it was in alarm.  Their suggestion was to hook the nano switches into the 220v power do they are always on, hook the current light feed to be the switch aspect and the output would then go to the actual LED light.  This way if the switch did fail, it just wouldn't turn a status light on but the pump would continue to run.  Their support even reviewed the wiring diagram on the pump.  Not many companies would actually go that far to sell a couple of nano switches that are under $100.
 

pete_c

Guru
Here have been utilizing the GRI wired water sensor for years now with no issues.  Really only needed one next to the basement sump and ejection pumps which is next to the water heater and furnace and water purification and water softner.
 
Utilize Homeseer 3 / Omni Plugin and the Leviton Omni Pro 2 panel here.  All security and saftey sensors are hard wired to the panel. 
 

viroid

Member
I see a lot of recommendations for the GRI-2600.


What is the difference between the Flair 1000-h20 and the GRI-2600?

As I understand it, you have to supply the GRI-2600 with 12v power, and then connect it to a zone for monitoring?

Whereas the Flair is simply open/close and is wired to a zone?


I found this on Amazon, would it work as well?

Floor Water Sensor for Flood and Leak Detection (LS-2600)


https ://www.amazon.com/dp/B079YB1T8J/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_PQlbCb1Z5WRK0
 

RAL

Senior Member
The Flair sensor looks similar to the GRI 2800.   The 2800 is simpler than the 2600 in that it requires no external power and connects to zone inputs and operates on the voltage that the panel sends through the zone loop.  The 2600 requires an extra pair of wires for power, but that provides some advantages in terms of zone supervision, and also provides a true relay contact closure vs an open collector type closure on the 2800. 
 
I took a quick look at the LS-2600, and it doesn't appear to be something that would be compatible with most alarm panels as it has a rather high resistance (1.4MΩ) when it detects water.  Not at all like a real alarm contact.
 
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